How do contractors buy construction lumber?

[Stephen Tashiro]

How do contractors buy construction lumber to build an entire house? I assume they must order it in large quantities. Is it the same "grade" as is found on the shelves and bins of hardware stores? A large amount lumber on display in hardware stores is warped or cracked. If contractors receive that quality of lumber, I don't understand how they build anything straight.

[Ron Natalie]

Depends on the contractor. Some smaller guys do pick through the stuff at the borgs. Most however, deal with local lumber suppliers who can provide consistently better quality than what you find left over at the home centers. You can get longer lengths than you typically find at the home centers as well.

[Van Huskey]

When I GCed my own house I ordered more than I needed from a good lumberyard, any culls were returned for credit on the next delivery.

[Rick Fisher]

I have been selling lumber to contractors since I was a kid..

Typically the wood sold at a Borg is end tagged with a bar code scanner .. not a big deal but lots of mills wont do it .. So borg wood comes from big mills which cut everything.. Canfor, LP .. Weyerhauser ..

In our market, we buy studs from Stud mills.. Full truckloads.. They are bought on both price and quality .. A good quality stud mill will get $10 -$15 per msf more than a cheap stud mill... If you ship a builder a load of crap studs, they usually freak out ..

2x10 is the same.. If used for joist, its a sensitive item ..

With studs, they will tolerate a certain amount of lousy ones because they get cut up for cripples and used for back framing ..

Plates are the least sensitive .. but still, too much wain and you get complaints..

I believe that construction lumber should be stored outside.. in the rain and humidity .. Taking it inside dries it out too much .. it cracks, warps and splits, then it takes on moisture when its taken back outside..

Very few builders will buy lumber, roofing, drywall or insulation at a borg.. The lumber is usually crap and they don't keep all the sizes.. the roofing needs to be delivered to the roof .. lol.. Drywall needs to be delivered into the house, in the rooms.. and borgs are expensive on insulation.. Like crazy .. Since we got a borg in our area, we match their " retail " insulation prices and its our most profitable sku.. by a country mile.. Margin is huge and the dollars add up fast..

We sell to insulators, they buy it about 35% cheaper than retail..

[Jim Andrew]

If you are building your own house, go to a contractor yard and tell them what you are building, and talk to their salesman. Fill out the paperwork so you can buy without writing a check for every load. Then, instead of calling the yard, call the salesman when you need material. He will get it delivered timely, rather than after everybody else has their stuff. If he stops by jobsites, let him know he can stop by and help you get the right amounts of material. Some of these salesmen can help you greatly, just by making sure you get your stuff as you need it, and in the proper quantities. If you are buying a whole building, you will get a good price. You can shop on details, but on the major building material, it helps to go with a yard that is helpful, and there is very little to be saved in shopping around.

[Ira Matheny]

BORGS cannot and do not give the detailed service as do the local lumber yard. Altho local lumber yards 'Seem' more expensive, the are not. I've been a Gen Contractor for over 35 years and am amazed at the number of small time contractors that think they are saving $$ at the borg. THEY R NOT. [but dont' tell them. That way they will never be any competition to us real contractors]
When dealing with a full service lumber yard/dealer, defective materials will be promptly credited. When I have a problem, the salesman shows up to help mitigate this problem.

Try that with a borg.

[Rick Fisher]

Ira is absolutely right ..

A builder becomes known in a building supply store pretty fast.. A few dozen builders and sub trades quickly make up 50% of the store's annual sales.. We stock 5/8" no groove ranchwall because a single contractor likes using it for gables.. Our store recommends contractors to people for reno's and new homes.. Its like a partnership...

The framing part of the house is pretty small in the big picture.. Builders order windows, doors, hardwood flooring and they like to deal with the same people, over and over again..

Around here the Borgs attract the weekend warriors.. The renovators that cant get an account because they don't pay their bills.. We still, once a year, get those homeowners who buy 8000 feet of drywall at the Borg and it gets forklifted on the driveway .. I love those people.. They pack in 10 - 12 sheets and then come to our place wanting to know what we will charge to send a crew to finish the job.. lol

About once a month, I will do small woodworking projects for builders that I really like.. Favors.. Walnut handrail parts.. Odd maple parts .. wooden counter tops.. whatever.. Its a relationship thing .. The employees at the yard actually become friends with some of the builders... it makes it a cool business.

I had a pretty big builder come to me 3 weeks ago, the architect decided they needed 96 x 1/2 x 1/2 walnut square plugs in the stair treads.. He agreed calmly but had no idea how it would be done on site in a timely manner .. I loaned him my Lee Valley Greene and Greene punch for 3 days and made him the walnut square stock with my sander .. He was thrilled... When he gave it back, he said it was dull and I should order a new one, give him the bill. Very gracious.. I told him I would just sharpen it instead.. lol.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Around here the Borgs attract the weekend warriors.. The renovators that cant get an account because they don't pay their bills..

Or ones such as myself & my wife that sort of fall between the cracks...
We don't do enough volume on a constant basis to deal with the better yards - the ones that don't sell retail.
It really sucks big time to have to deal with the borgs.
What bugs me more than the "less than quality" material they stock is the sheer amount of time wasted when dealing with them.

Then there's the problems of running short of materials - only to find that what I've been using all along is no longer carried...
I installed 10 can lights I picked up from Lowes a few years ago. One went bad & when I went back to get another, Lowes had dropped it.
They had a replacement - but - the new one needed new trim rings since the rings from the old one didn't fit.
A simple $10 fix became a $30 fix - (snap of fingers) just like that - plus the waste of time involved finding this out the hard way...

Time is money & places like Lowes just don't grasp the concept that I don't have all the time in the world to hunt around the store for simple items, then stand in line while Mrs. Jones gets a price check on her flat of Petunias....

+1 (or is it 2,3 or 4 ?) to the above.
A real yard will cater to a contractor & have real sales people (not some guy they drag over from the plumbing department).

The downside is that, for the "little guy", we have to pretty much suck it up and take our lumps from the borg...
After all though - fair is fair.
To a full time contractor,,,,I'm Mrs. Jones and her flat of petunias...
It costs a big guy $$ to have to wait while my small order gets filled...

Edit to add - dang it, I forgot all about a place like Terry Lumber. (shame on me since they're my "go to" place...)
Terry Lumber is sort of a cross over. They have top quality materials, cheaper than the borg & with a great staff.
They cater to small to medium sized customers.
They're priced higher than a pure no retail yard, but, mostly under what the borg is on most materials.
There's simply no comparison in quality though.
Terry sells poplar for about the same price the borg charges for pine.
Even though they sell retail - their retail business is a pretty small part.

[Larry Edgerton]

We have a yard here, Preston Feather Lumber, maybe not quite as good as Ricks yard I'd say, but with the same sort of service. They are the last one. If they go out of business I am going to quit. I can not and will not deal with the Borg. Life is too short.

When the Borg first moved in customers would insist that I get a quote from them. They are consistantly 20% more across the board, and the material is junk. Add to that that no one there knows what they are talking about, and I do not have the time to waste. I am not going to walk around a warehouse with a cart, I am going to call up a sales and have what I want delivered without haveing to explain what it is first. If they insist these days I tell them I will not waste my time, and that is that.

Nothing against doing it yourself, but the Borg has drug down standards as homeowners ask the morons that work there for advise, and they know about as much about building as your average dentist. Well, maybe less, as they do not seem to attract the top of the class. What they do know is what they have gleamed from manufacturers and the sale department. Both of which lie. If you always believe what you read in advertisements, then the Borg is your kind of place. I have seen the latest/greatest building products come out and fail/disappear more times than I can count in my lifetime of building. Even codes, that are lobbied for by manufacturers are not always correct.

So a homeowner is up against a sea of misinformation, and when they walk in to a Borg, they are not correcting that problem as they, the Borg, are not interested in long term relationships, just what the stocks are doing at the end of the next quarter. You can not get correct information at the Borg, because there is no one there that actually knows what they are talking about. The ones around here usually have a token builder on board so they can send out idiots to do installs on his licence, hence no liability on their part, and the builder is always one that failed. So you have 150 clerks/stockboys and one failed builder. Great concept!

You can't even buy the lumber I use at the Borg, they will not stock it. I use all hemlock framing material in walls as I do not like callbacks and my yard stocks it for the contractors that do the kind of work I do. And I don't have to use a cart....

In case you haven't figured out what I am saying, I would suggest that you ask some better builders where they purchase their lumber, and go there.

Larry

[Rich Engelhardt]

So you have 150 clerks/stockboys and one failed builder. Great concept!

LOL!
It gets even better than that...
I used to work at one of the original borgs - Bulider's Square - way back when.

What amazed me was how they would hire managers - from retailers that were either gone belly up or well on thier way to belly up.
Thre's good reasons why places like Zayers and Gold Circle folded.
Since builders Square bellied up too, I guess they found out the hard way that's not a great concept.

I am not going to walk around a warehouse with a cart,

Dang I think you nailed it!!!!
I don't like pushing a cart around either. It doesn't feel "right".

IMHO - a good way to ID a place were a builder or contractor buys would be a lack of shopping carts.

I like it!

[Bob Lloyd]

I get all my lumber, plywood etc. from the local lumber yard but that is only part of the project. The windows, cabinets, siding, insulation, drywall etc are monetarily much more than the framing. Many of them will take off a material list from an architects set of prints. They will deliver it in stages as you need it, unload it where you want it and use a boom truck if you request it. I expect the same service from a small addition to a whole house. All of the lumber yards around here, except one, cater to contractors and homeowners alike. With an account, I get a discount, as would you. If you are building a house I would advise going to a real lumber yard. As others have stated that is where the real knowledge and help can be found. Good luck.

[John Coloccia]

When someone asks me about building and fixing electronics, I tell them "don't buy anything at Radio Shack and you'll be off to a good start". When someone asks me about building things, I tell them "don't buy anything at Home Depot or Lowes, and you'll be off to a good start.

I am always stunned at how lousy the quality of wood at the BORG is. Sometimes I HAVE to go there because I need an item NOW and they happen to have it, but I seldom shop there anymore and certainly NEVER for wood. I'm fortunate to have a high quality building supplier just a few minutes away from my house (I'll give a little plug for Sanford and Hawley in Connecticut), and they cater to everyone, including small fries like me. Not only that, but they are incredibly helpful even though I just buy a handful of items every year, mostly for jig building. Their prices are great too, btw. Last time I was in there, I needed a bunch of A/BB 3/4" ply for some jig building, and they had a bunch of 2X2 sheets cut already (exactly the size I needed). When I went to pay for it (you pay, and then you or someone else gathers it up and takes it to your car) the guy noticed, "Hey, you're buying enough of these that it would be cheaper to just buy an 8' sheet and have us cut it up". I think he saved me about $20. Now that's great service considering I only give him about $200 or $300 of business a year. Oh, and their wood is actually STRAIGHT...I don't have to dig through a pile to find the one sheet of ply that's not bent in half, or that one stud that isn't bent like a pretzel. I've placed larger orders with them when I built my shop and didn't have to worry that they would deliver a pile of junk.

I really scratch my head anytime I'm in the BORG and I see contractors walking around looking for things. What the heck? Don't they know where the plumbing supply place is? Don't they know where the electrical supply place is? Don't they know where the lumber supplier is? I don't do any construction work at all yet I know where all these guys are use them almost exclusively. I'm with Larry. Even at my level where I use construction materials mainly for jig and shop furniture building, the idea of walking around a warehouse with a shopping cart and then picking through junk material just strikes me as an incredibly poor way to use my time.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I really scratch my head anytime I'm in the BORG and I see contractors walking around looking for things. What the heck? Don't they know where the plumbing supply place is? Don't they know where the electrical supply place is? Don't they know where the lumber supplier is?

John, tell me where these places are I'm no contractor, but I've been doing a lot of renovation/additions to my own house, and have been having a hard time finding places other than the BORGs. I'm in metro Denver, so it should be easy, but I'm having a hard time.

I'm starting a deck project, so I thought "for sure, this time I'll shop at a real lumber yard". So I emailed a few retail-friendly-looking yards in the area, asking for some prices, and haven't heard back from any.

As much as I HATE Lowes/HD, I really like being able to pull up products on their website, seeing what's stocked, and seeing prices.

[Harry Hagan]

Ira and Rick are right.

Borgs have not been good for the general public. They come into most towns; undercut the local small lumber yards and hardware stores to run the little guy out of business. That might take a few years but eventually when there's no more competition, the borg cuts staff, raises prices and now you're stuck with poor quality lumber, lousy service, and outrageous prices.

Last summer I helped a friend renovate and add onto his lake cabin out in the sticks. We went with the full-service local lumber yard down the road. Like the "Mom and Pop" place I helped manage back in the 70s and 80s. The lumber was top notch and prices were much cheaper than the borg down the street from my house. When I say "full-service" I mean they were well informed, didn't promise to do something they had no intention of following through with, helped you load materials and actually delivered when you needed it; for a nominal charge.

A concept totally foreign to borg management.

[John Coloccia]

John, tell me where these places are I'm no contractor, but I've been doing a lot of renovation/additions to my own house, and have been having a hard time finding places other than the BORGs. I'm in metro Denver, so it should be easy, but I'm having a hard time.

I'm starting a deck project, so I thought "for sure, this time I'll shop at a real lumber yard". So I emailed a few retail-friendly-looking yards in the area, asking for some prices, and haven't heard back from any.

As much as I HATE Lowes/HD, I really like being able to pull up products on their website, seeing what's stocked, and seeing prices.

Don't email them. Go in person with a list or call them. These guys don't live on e-mail. The ones I know (and this goes for most of these kinds of places...HVAC, paint suppliers, electronics, lumber, plumbing, etc etc) pick up the phone, take the order and prepare it for pickup or ship it. It's almost like an auto parts store. You don't send countless e-mails back and forth. You call and order the part, and the runner delivers the part.

You want to know where the pros go? First, find the local construction material supplier. I'm sure someone in the Denver area will chime in here to let you know where to go (I hope, anyhow). When you get there to place your order, ask them where people go for plumbing and electrical stuff. When you get to the plumbing place, ask them where people go for lumber and electrical stuff. When you get to the electrical place...well, you get the picture. If they give a different supplier than ones you've already heard of, ask about the ones you know about. Pretty soon, you'll have a complete picture of who's got good prices, who's difficult to work with, who everyone likes working with, etc etc.

Some will not want to deal with people who aren't businesses. I have a business so at least I can give that, but some will give you a hard time anyway:

them: "We only do business with plumbers, not guitar builders"
me: "I install guitar shaped plumbing systems for eccentric millionaires and I have cash. Do you want to make a sale or not?"

They laugh, enter me into their system, and then once I'm in I never have anymore trouble.