Cabinet Leg Levelers

[Jefferey Scott]

Have any of you guys used the Blum or the Camar ABS plastic leg levelers for your cabinets? Which brand and what did you like about them? I ordered a couple sets of the Camar for my kitchen cabinet project to try out. It looks like they just attach to the bottoms with screws rather than a bolt thru the bottom of the cabinet like the Blum. Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.

[frank shic]

i always use the camar leg levelers for precisely the same reason you stated: no one wants to see an ugly bolt going through the bottom of the cabinet! probably wouldn't make a difference for drawer stacks though. i prefer the knock in leg levelers. another trick is to just use them on the front, attack a ledger strip to the wall which will simplify the installation process somewhat.

[Jamie Buxton]

There's a slightly different scheme you might consider: the loose toekick. You build the base cabinets the same way as you would for those leg levelers. However, the space between the boxes and the floor is filled with a loose toekick -- basically a box. It extends the full length of the run of base cabinets. You install the toekick first, leveling it with shims, and screwing it to the subfloor. Then the base cabinets just drop on to it. In my view, the loose toekick has a few advantages over the leg levelers. First, you don't snap off the levelers when you're flipping the cabinet over. (DAMHIKT) Second, you make only one leveling operation per run, not one per box. Third, it is easier to level the toekick. You can see it and reach it and adjust it without crawling around on the floor on your belly.

Factories prefer leg levelers because they don't know where each base cabinet is going. If you're custom-building the kitchen, you know exactly where everything is going, and you can make the loose toekicks.

[mreza Salav]

I'm not a cabinet maker at all but have seen what Jamie is talking about. It's more work to build them than to attache a leg leveler but I agree they are better in many ways (including those he mentioned).

[Mark Rakestraw]

Bolt through Blum????? They don't come with directions, but I don't think so. With the right size bit (30mm I think) there's no need to bolt them on, they are just press in. The hole in the top is for those places you can't reach when the cabinet is in place. In those areas drill a small corresponding hole up through the cabinet floor and you can use a screwdriver from the topside to adjust the leveler

[phil harold]

loose toe-kick or what I call a ladder made out of plywood
I like to level the ladder in first then just place the boxes on top

[Jefferey Scott]

Bolt through Blum????? They don't come with directions, but I don't think so. With the right size bit (30mm I think) there's no need to bolt them on, they are just press in. The hole in the top is for those places you can't reach when the cabinet is in place. In those areas drill a small corresponding hole up through the cabinet floor and you can use a screwdriver from the topside to adjust the leveler

You're right, they do have a version that is press in. They have two versions that I could see at wwhardware.com. I just wonder how secure a press on leveler is compared to one that is bolted through the cabinet bottom.

[Jefferey Scott]

There's a slightly different scheme you might consider: the loose toekick. You build the base cabinets the same way as you would for those leg levelers. However, the space between the boxes and the floor is filled with a loose toekick -- basically a box. It extends the full length of the run of base cabinets. You install the toekick first, leveling it with shims, and screwing it to the subfloor. Then the base cabinets just drop on to it. In my view, the loose toekick has a few advantages over the leg levelers. First, you don't snap off the levelers when you're flipping the cabinet over. (DAMHIKT) Second, you make only one leveling operation per run, not one per box. Third, it is easier to level the toekick. You can see it and reach it and adjust it without crawling around on the floor on your belly.
Factories prefer leg levelers because they don't know where each base cabinet is going. If you're custom-building the kitchen, you know exactly where everything is going, and you can make the loose toekicks.

Jamie you make some valid points. I'm not married to either method yet. I've still got 20 cabinets to build before I'm ready to set them. I'll consider this method as well. Thanks!

[Steve Griffin]

To add to the advantages of the "loose toekick" or ladder method:

-Saves sheetgoods. The ladder is made of smaller falloff, and really helps use scraps in the shop. Also, instead of needing 34.5" cabinet box sides, which is a horrible sheet good length, you can subtract the toekick and easily get six sides per sheet.

-Easier box construction. All dados can be on the deck and top, rather than some on sides and some on top/decks.

-Toe kicks can be .25" sheetgoods, because the ladder provides plenty of structure and attachment. Toe kicks can also be applied before cabinet set, which is slightly easier.

-Cabinets are lighter and smaller for delivery.

Now my dream would be a really cheap method of leveling the ladder bases without shims. Shims only take a few more minutes per cabinet to use and cut off, which is probably the same as the time to install levelers.

[mreza Salav]

To add to the advantages of the "loose toekick" or ladder method:

-Saves sheetgoods. The ladder is made of smaller falloff, and really helps use scraps in the shop. Also, instead of needing 34.5" cabinet box sides, which is a horrible sheet good length, you can subtract the toekick and easily get six sides per sheet.

I'm a bit confused Steve, are you suggesting that the sides could stop at the top of the toe kick? The way I have seen it the entire box goes over the toe kick (i.e. toe kick sits inside the box) and gives you a more stable/secure box (no side-to-side movement), unless you secure the box to the box by some means?

[Peter Kelly]

To add to the advantages of the "loose toekick" or ladder method:

-Saves sheetgoods. The ladder is made of smaller falloff, and really helps use scraps in the shop. Also, instead of needing 34.5" cabinet box sides, which is a horrible sheet good length, you can subtract the toekick and easily get six sides per sheet.

-Easier box construction. All dados can be on the deck and top, rather than some on sides and some on top/decks.

-Toe kicks can be .25" sheetgoods, because the ladder provides plenty of structure and attachment. Toe kicks can also be applied before cabinet set, which is slightly easier.

-Cabinets are lighter and smaller for delivery.

Now my dream would be a really cheap method of leveling the ladder bases without shims. Shims only take a few more minutes per cabinet to use and cut off, which is probably the same as the time to install levelers.

One more advantage to building a separate base--if you're building an island, or a long peninsula it's far easier to secure everything. Just level and attach the plinth with L brackets to the floor, set the boxes on top and you're done. I just don't like the feeling of an island with plastic legs.

[Jefferey Scott]

One more advantage to building a separate plinth–if you're building an island, it's much esaier to secure to the floor.

I have a question. I have a concrete slab floor. How would you guys secure the ladder to the floor? Tapcons? or what.

[Peter Kelly]

On concrete, any type of lead or wedge anchor through the L bracket will work really. I don't personally like Tapcons all that much but if they work for you then by all means, use 'em.

[Sam Murdoch]

A few more ¢s worth of ideas Jeff, if you care. My system is a blend of back ledger and loose toe kick. I allow for a 1/2" leveled ledger behind a run of base cabinets with another 1/2" strip attached to the back of the ganged up cabinets set to rest on the wall ledger. These are not french cleats - no need - just one set to support the other. The leg part is a simple right angle of plywood - with 2 legs approximately 3" x the full length of a run of cabinets. The face leg is short of the intended finish height of the toe kick by at least 1/4". The height of the leg face is determined by the finish height of the toe kick space minus 1/4" to 1/2" depending on the degree of level of the floor.

When I get the base cabs to the job sight I attach the wall ledger, and flip the cabs on their back so that I can screw on my leg angle. I then pick up the cabinets and set them on the back ledger which is loosely attached to the wall with a few long screws that are not fully set because at this point the cabinets are sitting on the ledger but not level to the floor, front to back, because my front leg is too short, so the cabinets are leaning at the front. I then lift the cabinets by setting shims along the front under the leg angle until the assembly is level front to back (it is already level left to right). When I'm all set I set just a few screws through the leg angle and some shims into the floor and of course finish attaching the cabinets to the wall. On a concrete floor I would probably drive the shims in with construction adhesive, some PL caulking, just to keep them located, otherwise the wall screws and return cabinets make up a fully locked-in system. Next trim the floor shims so that they don't interfere with my finished toe front (typically a 1/2" finished board). Takes longer to read and write about then to actually do it. I have tried using separate bases and determined that having to build and level those was not efficient or cost effective. Tried leveler feet too, but hated spending the money. My system uses throw away plywood - is fast and easy and pretty fool proof. If there is a down side it is that when trying to set a really long run of cabs I need to get help or break up the run into smaller groups, though I try to design around those issues as I typically send my cabinets to the field with face frames attached to the entire elevation on one wall.

... and now I've got to go build my too long coffee break is over

[Steve Griffin]

Unless it's an island, you can skip attachment to a concrete or tile floor. Screw to the walls.

If you do need to attach to the floor, I use little angle braces and concrete screws.