Grizzly Chokes!

[Bob Boake]

If they were to send out replacement parts on verbal request alone then they would see their warranty parts expense skyrocket as they would be buying switches, and motors and bearings for every tool in the shop.

If you buy an alternator or starter for your car and it goes bad would you expect a parts store to offer a replacement without you bringing in the old one for a bench test? Why should grizzly be any different?

One policy many companies use in your situation is they will take a credit card number as a deposit. If you return a bad part to them within thirty days there is no charge. If the part is good or you never return the bad unit you are charged for the part. If they don't have that option it should be put in place. All return policies are not created equal, however they are in writing and available.

Extremely liberal return policies are expensive. The main selling point of Grizzly tools is that they are cheap. I have never ordered a grizzly tool but I have worked a lot with claims. You wouldn't believe the amount of fraud. Sad but true.

[Jimmy Tallent]

SHOULD OF BOUGHT A DELTA UNISAW!

[Bill Crofutt]

I read the notes on the phone conversations with our people and looked at the invoices of parts sent and those notes. I can see how things were "messed up" and I apolgize for that. I don't know what has turned you around from your recent post praising us, but I bet I can fix it. If you want to email me directly, I will personally get this taken care of quickly.

[Bill Crofutt]

In the post by Mr. Lawson, he mentions spending 25 dollars for a 2-3 dollar part. I believe (according to our records) here are the parts that were ordered. If you compare these prices to others, I am sure we are much less.

P1019019 Upper Wheel Shaft Hinge $7.50
P1019022 Upper Wheel Shaft $5.00
P1012017 Upper Wheel Sliding Bracket $10.00
Plus shipping.

If you were charged differently, please let me know.

[Phil Phelps]

Originally posted by Jimmy Tallent
SHOULD OF BOUGHT A DELTA UNISAW!

Are you saying that you should have bouht one, Jimmy?

[Dave Arbuckle]

(whispers)hey, phil. you got any idea why jimmy there thinks a delta unisaw would make a good jointer?
(whisper off)

Dave

[Steve Clardy]

Originally posted by Dave Arbuckle
(whispers)hey, phil. you got any idea why jimmy there thinks a delta unisaw would make a good jointer?
(whisper off)

Dave

WOW!! Hey Dave, fill me in here. You mean maybe I could sell my cabinet saw and jointer and get a unisaw and use it for both? Is this what Jim means?

Couldn't pass this one up, the devil made me do it.
Steve

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Bob...I understand your point...to a point. In the case I mentioned, we were out of business until we got the new switch, which I'll repeat was a warranty replacement...and as I recall, a $20 part? We purchased the 1023ZX, the 1033 20" planer, the 1018 8" jointer and the 1029 dust collector at the same time. While an argument can be made that our large purchase has nothing to do with the issue of the switch replacment, I think we might've spent enough money to deserve a bit of latitude in the policy...

And thanks to Bill for answering the original post...

KC

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

While I agree there is good and bad in almost everything in today's somewhat goofy world, I wanted to relate my experience in dealing with Grizzly. I have had nothing but positive dealings with the "Big Green". I haven't placed tons of orders, but I have dealt with them on some big ticket items, and some small items too. I have always had excellent packaging, quick delivery, and the products were as advertised and have never disappointed me. I think given the tremendous volume they deal in, problems are bound to happen from time to time, and that is understandable. It still doesn't excuse the customer service department from dropping the ball now and then, but everyone deserves a second chance. At least you are able to talk with a real person when you contact Grizzly, which is more than I can say for many other companies doing business today. I firmly believe that contacting the right person, and given the opportunity to resolve the problem, is foremost in the minds of those in charge at Grizzly. I know it can get frustrating, but in matters such as these, cool heads really do prevail, and usually the problems are resolved quicker too.

[Keith Outten]

Thanks to Bill Crofutt of Grizzly for joining SawMill Creek and responding to this thread. We appreciate his efforts and encourage other equipment manufacturers and sales outlets to get involved with our community.

Bill, as you are our 1000th member we would like to offer you a free SawMill Creek hat and a special welcome to SawMill Creek from all 999 of our other charter members.

Thanks Again!

[Kevin Post]

Originally posted by Bill Crofutt
...I will personally get this taken care of quickly.

It's nice to see Bill is willing to take a hands-on approach and fix this personally. It says a lot that he is willing to read the posts here and get involved. It's too bad Jay got the run-around from the people in Customer Service who were supposed to take care of this in the first place.

I've considered purchasing machines from Grizzly but this is precisely the type of thing that has made me decide against it. With my luck, I'd end up with a lemon and then spend hours on the phone trying, unsuccessfully, to convince someone on the other end to make it right.

I have mostly Jet and Delta equipment. About half of the big tools I've purchased have had some type of major defect (yes, half). I guess this sort of thing happens with all manufacturers but it seems to happen much too frequently, in my opinion. ( That was a little jab at you, Bill and all the other QC guys out there who might be reading this. )

The better vendors differentiate themselves by fixing problems with a minimum of frustration. Things would also improve greatly if manufacturers would do more to avoid shipping tools with warped castings, bad motors, etc. So far (knocking on wood), either the local dealer or the manufacturer has handled the problems efficiently and without raising my blood pressure. Let's hope Jay's is under control shortly. Let us know how it goes...

-Kevin

[Perry Schmidt]

Glad to see Bill contributing here. Thanks for your expert info. I rather hope a Delta and Jet rep would also contribute - hope they do someday.

Being a cost concious hobbiest I have a lot of Grizzly, with a smattering of Delta and Jet. I have to say I'm very happy w/ all of them. Has all my experiences been good?? No. Most have been good and my bad experiences are not the norm. That's why I'll keep going back.

I don't think I've ever dealt w/ a company for any product/service over time where there hasn't been SOME problem or difficulty in dealing w/ the company and/or product. The question I always ask is this the exception or the norm. Or (as happened in the past) is it becoming the norm. I will grant you I've heard more complaints recently about Grizzly, but I'm still not convinced that this is becoming the norm for them. It's just a bigger sample set of experiences. So far I've been very happy w/ their products and how they've dealt w/ problems. And until they routinely screw up, I'll still buy Grizzly - and hope to do so again at the end of the year w/ a NEW BANDSAW

My 2 cents.

Perry

[David Ripley]

When all else fails, close your eyes and punt!

[Jay Albrandt]

Thank you to all who have responded to my post. I appreciate your input about your experiences with Grizzly, good or bad.

Bob Boake mostly, and others, made me realize that my rant post really did not give enough information to be fair. This is not JUST about a $2.00 key and roll pin.

I did 6 months of research prior to making this purchase, and despite the 50/50 reviews that are out there about Grizzly, I decided to give them a shot. The jointer arrived before the holidays, and because of that and a ski trip, I wasn't able to assemble it and test it until the middle of Jan. 03. Test cuts after assembly were good, but the fence was riding ON the table and scratching it... which was no big deal because it can be raised. The original and on going problem with the jointer is that the fence will not stay square when it is moved to a different position in relation to where it was originally squared. Example, square fence at back of tables (face jointing), move fence forward (edge jointing) fence is now out of square. I called Grizzly about the problem and their solution was to shim the fence support to keep the fence square. No problem! Work and life occur and can't get to garage for 2 weeks. While shimming part, using feeler guage and nice LV straight edge, discover that fence support (part #33 for those of you who have the jointer) is warped. Called Grizzly, and explained that the suggested fix will not work. Grizzly agrees to send new part with the corresponding key and roll pin. Part arrives 8 business days later. Cleaned and checked replacement part (#33) it is warped worse than original. Call Grizzly, speak with different rep (first one was busy) and explain the problem on 2-26-03. He will have "someone talk to me by email or phone about this problem this week". In the mean time, I take fence apart to experiment thinking that I can shim fence base (part #20, the part that glides on #33) to nullify the warp. During this, I discover that part #20 is also warped, (rocks when placed on jointer table).

No word from Grizzly by 3-6-03 so I call them. Another tech suggests I shim the part. Long explanation occurs, and the tech puts me on hold to talk to machinest. "Machinest needs to know which way the fence becomes out of square when it is moved". Tech asks me to reassemble the fence and fence support and call him back with this information! . I do what he asks, he puts me on hold again for several minutes to talk with machinest. He and machinest agree that both parts need to be replaced. Grizzly sends new #33 fence support and #20 fence base. Parts arrive 9 business days later.

Replacement parts arrive. Both parts are from OLD GENERATION jointers. They are both different colors from my machine, but I don't care. The fence support #33, is not ground very smooth, but hey it is flat, (no warp) but it is still not square to the table. Cool, not a problem because I can shim it accurately. Only problem with the fence support, (and a small problem at that) is that since it was from an earlier machine, the roll pin hole is considerably larger, and the replacement ones I was sent will not fit. HOWEVER, the fence base #20 does not even fit my machine. I can't attach my fence to it, and even if I could, it is warped just like the original anyway.

3-24-03. Called Grizzly and spoke with a Tech that seemed to care. He asked for another chance to fix the problem. I told him that the last #33 fence support was ugly because of the color and the poor surface, (I was kidding him) but I wanted to keep it because it was flat and could be shimmed well. I did ask for a new "old" generation key and roll pin to fit the "old" fence support. I also requested a different fence base #20 since the last one won't even fit my machine, and I request that it is checked for flatness prior to shipping. He said he would send the key, roll pin and new #20

4-21-03 Two weeks to the day and no parts yet. I call Grizzly. Asked about status of parts and Grizzly confirms they haven't been shipped yet. I understand that checking fence base or doing something to it prior to shipping may take longer, but I ask to talk to manager. Manager says she has to look in to it and will get back to me. No message or call from Grizzly for three days. I call Grizzly. Manager says someone did try to call. She will have a Tech call me later today. Grizzly calls me for first time! Tech confirms that the only part sent was #20 fence base, no key or roll pin. I asked on the chance that they sent a different #33 to take care of the key and roll pin issue...No.

I ask to talk to the manager again. Tech puts me on hold three times in an attempt to get manager. In between holds, he asks me to review the problem with him so he can try to fix it. I go through whole history. I tell him that all I want is an "old" key and corresponding roll pin to fit the "old" generation #33, and that I am waiting for a fence base #20. He reviewed with me the dimensions of the key and roll pin, and even checked to see that these parts were in stock. They were. He is very apologetic, and I ask for some link belts for the jointer for my problems. He says no problem. He will send all parts 2nd day air.

4-25-03 New fence base #20 that was asked for on 3-24-03 arrives. It is flat, it is from a new machine, and it fits. Great!

4-28-03 Package arrives. No key, no roll pin, no belts. It contains a different #33 (wasn't asked for because I wanted to keep the old one) and a different #20 (also not asked for and really beat up). Just out of curiousity, I check the most recent #33 to see if it is flat so I can use the original key and roll pin. It is warped just like the original.

So far, I have an old style #33 that is ground poorly but I like it because it can be shimmed. I asked for a key and roll pin to fix it, and Grizzly confirmed they were on the shelf, but they have been unable to get it to me. I have a good and flat fence base that my fence does fit. So after 4 fence supports, and three fence bases, I still don't have a functional machine.

Each and everytime I called Grizzly I did my best to calmly, and professionally decribe my problems. I was friendly and courteous to the best of my ability, (yes I did get heated once, I admit, but by no means was I disrespectful.)

4-30-03 I call Grizzly and talk to customer service, ask for a manager and ask for a refund. I discussed the issues, and the history. She said she will look into it and call me back. One hour later she calls. She said I cannot receive a refund because it is past the 30 day window from the date of purchase (hince my comment about how the big corporation tries to intimidate the hobbiest, forgive my tone about this on my previous rant, but that was my impression). I explain that no where in my documentation, owners manual, or on there website at the time of purchase was this window disclosed. She says that Grizzly can only offer repair or replacement. I say the Grizzly has had ample opportunity to "repair" given the number of parts on my garage floor, and that a replacement (based on the quality or the parts) is likely to have the same problems. She says the jointer must be in the original packaging to return it. I stated that the original packaging was busted up from transport, one end of the jointer was actually sticking out of the crate and the pallet under the crate was broken (and yes this damage was noted on the shipping receipt). The shipping materials were dismantled and thrown away, like anyone would do, expecting that a serviceable machine just arrived. She then said that the jointer had to be in "new" condition in order for me to receive a full refund, and this would be determined by Grizzly when the machine was received by them. I told her that my impression of what would likely happen is, that I would go to the trouble of crating and sending this thing back and Grizzly would look at it and say that it "was within their tolerances" and either refuse my
refund, and or, send it back to me with a shipping charge. She would not, nor was she willing to go any further with this issue. It was simply, "return the machine, and we will authorize a refund when the machine is deemed resellable". She gives me a return number and says instructions to contact the carrier will come in the mail.

So, there you have it. That is when I lost it and had to post my rant on the Creek.

Thank you to Terry Hatfield for referring this to Grizzly. When I got home this morining there was a call on my answering machine, and I saw that someone from Grizzly joined The Creek and wants to help me with this issue. I will be responding to those messages next.

I hope that gives you better insight into this issue, and that you don't think this whole mess is just a misunderstanding, or that I was inappropriate with my conversations, or requests when dealing with Grizzly.

I will post the final resolution when it comes around.

Peace

Jay

[Dale Sherman]

Jay, after reading your post, it appears that Grizzly customer service is about the same as when I bought my 18" bandsaw in 1988(?). The table rocked in the trunnion cradle, quite badly at that. After several replacements, it was obvious that the cradle surface needed to be machined, not left as a rough casting.

I finally took the cradle to machinist friend who put a nice smooth curved machined surface on it for $75. It has worked fine ever since.

I have not bought another Grizzly product since. My view is that Grizzly offers a decent product for the price. But to get the price as low as they do, they cut a lot of corners, sometimes too much. Some aspects of quality control are too low for the machine to even be useable.

My bandsaw has a lot of shortcomings, but for the price, I'm happy with it. When I can afford it, I'll get an Agazzani in whatever brand I find at a good price with good service. The newer Grizzly bandsaws look like the Agazzani, but I doubt I would get another Grizzly.

A friend of mine bought a corral full of Grizzly woodworking tools. He's happy with them. But he went down to the PA warehouse, checked them over closely before bringing them home. And because he works metal for a living, he was able to resolve any fit problems with minimal effort.

I expect with Bill Crofutt of Grizzly involved, you'll get a satisfactory resolution to your problem.

Dale Sherman, awaiting the closure to the jointer saga.