Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 33

Thread: Building an Entry Door

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Punta Gorda, FL
    Posts
    3,028

    Building an Entry Door

    I've been tossing around making an entry door. The existing one was kicked down when we were out of town. And it's 26 years old. I was able to fix the door but the break in took its toll on it.

    I've read a number of articles but none had step-by-step instructions nor did they have any information about do's and dont's. I know the joints need to be perfect, the wood grain has to be very straight and long tenons are needed.

    I've seen solid wood doors made from mahogany, oak, alder and Douglas fir. I was thinking mahogany. I have a nice piece of African mahogany that I could use for the stiles and some smaller pieces. I found a door I really like. But can I make it so it will last?

    What I'm thinking is using Freud's entry door router bits. They have pretty good instructions and the bits come with a DVD, so maybe that will be better than the PDF instructions. They recommend 2-1/2" tenons on three rails. The door I have in mind has no middle rail but this door is being sold as an entry door so it must work.

    I've made dozens of cabinet doors and Freud's entry door bits work on the same principle. The curve on the top would be made with two pieces in order to minimize short grain runs. The tenons look pretty straightforward. The mortises would require either using a mortiser or making a jig to rout them out then clean up the corners with a chisel. The bit set cuts 5/8" wide dados. I'd have to buy a 5/8" hollow chisel bit for my mortiser if I went that route. (adds $90 to the cost)

    For the panels, I'd make two pieces 3/4" thick, inside and outside, separated by 1/4" solid insulation. That would leave me a 3/16" edge on each panel to fit into the dado. I have two styles of panel bits (CMT) that I could use for the panels. They have back cutters that leaves 1/4" edge so I don't think cutting another 1/16" off would be an issue. They can cut a profile up to 5/8" deep (I'd use 9/16" of that) but I'm not sure how that would look, considering their profile. I'd have to check that out on a piece of scrap.

    I'm thinking I'd make the short rails with tenons. Either that or use 1/2" dowels. I'm unsure how structurally sound it would be having tenons only on the top and bottom rails.

    I took the image of the door and used AutoCAD to blow it up to size then drew the rails and stiles over that. Then I took Freud's router bit profile and created 3D parts and pieces out of the whole thing to see what I'd be in store for. I know I can make it. What I don't know is is the design structurally sound enough to hold up to the rigors an entry door endures?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    2,203
    If you're going to make the rails and stiles on that door out of solid wood (instead of staved cores or Timberstrand) I'd check the moisture content of your materials, estimate the anticipated moisture content in your area and plug the species and size and species into the Shrinkolator at Woodweb. You'll be amazed at how much certain woods can move seasonally, especially with exterior entry doors.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Punta Gorda, FL
    Posts
    3,028
    Thanks Peter! I ran the different woods I mentioned through the Shrinkolator and was surprised to find African mahogany had the least shrinkage. That's good news for me if I decide to do this because I have a couple of pieces in my shop that I could use in this project.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Northwestern Connecticut
    Posts
    7,149
    IMO that door design is plenty strong enough with all the middle architecture involved. You could use either exterior rated dowels or tenons, or loose tenons for that matter. I'd like to see tenons at least 2/3 the width of the stiles at the top and bottom rail intersections. The jamb and threshold are actually more complicated IME than making the door (I work in a door shop, though I don't make many doors these days.....economy....ugghhh...). When people ask "will it last" my first response is "is it protected?" Porch, roof, portico, pediment, something between the direct sun, driving rain, freezing snow, and the hardwood door? Hardwood exterior doors require regular maintenance, and those without the aid of protection require more frequent maintenance, and those hanging out in the breeze may need semi-annual maintenance.

    On that design I'd pay particular attention to the curved rail above the glass portion. As shown, that short grain is a major source of weakness, the first thing that will break, check and rot. Better IME to make up a segmented glue up with at least three sections. Worth considering. Solid may look more seamless at first, but it doesn't age well on a curve like that. At least int night be better to run the grain parallel to the rails if using a single board or edge grain glue up so you don't create a weak spot at the top of the curve, right where the door transfers load down to the bottom rail.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Punta Gorda, FL
    Posts
    3,028
    The door will be pretty well shielded from the elements. Besides sitting behind a storm door, it's sheltered by a roof overhanging the porch. It's about 28" above grade so there is virtually no problem with moisture seeping up from soil dampness. It has a westerly exposure, which is where most of the weather comes from, but it takes a hard blowing wind to actually drive rain and snow into it. The door only sees direct sunlight around sunset.

    The curved rail as shown in the photo was a concern for me too. I saw the short grain at the bottom, where it met the inner stiles, and felt that should be a no-no for the manufacturer. Maybe I could bend laminates to solve weakness issues. I'm not sure how conducive African mahogany is to bending though. I don't have a steamer.

    If you made the rail tenons through tenons and secured them with wedges would that solve the structural issues? It might add a bit of old world style to it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Northwestern Connecticut
    Posts
    7,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Julie Mor View Post
    The door will be pretty well shielded from the elements. Besides sitting behind a storm door, it's sheltered by a roof overhanging the porch. It's about 28" above grade so there is virtually no problem with moisture seeping up from soil dampness. It has a westerly exposure, which is where most of the weather comes from, but it takes a hard blowing wind to actually drive rain and snow into it. The door only sees direct sunlight around sunset.

    The curved rail as shown in the photo was a concern for me too. I saw the short grain at the bottom, where it met the inner stiles, and felt that should be a no-no for the manufacturer. Maybe I could bend laminates to solve weakness issues. I'm not sure how conducive African mahogany is to bending though. I don't have a steamer.

    If you made the rail tenons through tenons and secured them with wedges would that solve the structural issues? It might add a bit of old world style to it.

    Good protection is a good thing . Glad to hear that. For the curved rail, occasionally you might find piece of African mahogany whose grain takes a wild turn, and you cold use that turn to your advantage. But that type of stock may not be the easiest thing to shape in a tight curve. Tends to have a lot of tension. African mahogany bends well enough if sliced thin enough, but the visual effect of all those edge grain strips at what is essentially the focal point of that door may be distracting. I'm thinking the easiest approach is still to run the grain on the curved rail in the horizontal direction. This gives you a better strength than running a solid piece with grain horizontal, and while you do have short grain at the curved rail/mid stile intersections, the stress there is mostly in the vertical plane, and short grain still has good compression strength. Ideally though IME the curved head would be stronger if made either of three segments joined with sep half laps or bridal joints (either could be pegged as well) or made as a three layer lamination. You could also do both, or what is essentially a three layer brick laid lamination. Or you could may it like plywood, say a multi layer lamination (odd number of layers) glued up with perpendicular grain at each layer.

    Looks like a great project and a beautiful door. Is that center panel going to be carved or glass? Its hard to tell in the picture but it looks carved. Beautiful either way. I see a fee of the old victorians in my neighborhood with doors similar, some have twin curves in the upper field, most have etched glass with some sort of design in the glass, a few simply have bevel edged glass. They look great to my eye either way. Of course a solid carved panel is more secure if break in is an issue, and a multi point lock system might keep out the invaders too. You could also go with the 2 1/4" thickness if the set you are using will accommodate that. I look forward to seeing pics of the progress!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,178
    Julie,

    I agree with Peter that the curved rail shouldn't be a single piece if you're using solid; I think you could get away with a two-part construction to make up the full arch, with the grain of both parts running in the major direction of the pieces. Or do a lamination as Peter also suggests.

    And speaking of grain direction, the pictures you've provided seem to show the grain of all the rails running vertically, across the width of the rails; that might just be a quirk in the art software, or to match visually the grain direction of the stiles, but the grain of the rails has to run in the direction of the length of the rails.

    This is an ambitious first door project; get help for the glue-up, which is going to be an exercise in controlled chaos (as many glue-ups are).

    Personally, I like through, wedged tenons for maximum strength door construction, but the method isn't used much anymore since it's so much more time consuming.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    2,802
    About 3-years ago I made an entrance door for our home. It's still standing and no warpage. I tried to document it somewhat here:

    Mike's Entrance Door

    ...but, the biggest help to me was Joe Grout a door maker on another forum - WN. We passed many e-mails to each other during the process. I could not have done this project w/o help from the forums.



    Good Luck,

    Mike

  9. #9
    "African mahogany" is not mahogany .It looks much like Swetenia mahogani ,but is much more difficult to work.Coloqial(spellcheck )names for wood species cause problems.It is in constant movement while being worked,and has caused much mischief in the form of "adjusting" jointers.I would use ,if at all , only for the rails.The stiles need to be true mahogany or with a core or something else.Good luck.

  10. #10
    Oops.Meant to say Swetenia macrofyla

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bloomington, IL
    Posts
    6,009
    Amazing write up Mike!
    Glad its my shop I am responsible for - I only have to make me happy.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Northwestern Connecticut
    Posts
    7,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    "African mahogany" is not mahogany .It looks much like Swetenia mahogani ,but is much more difficult to work.Coloqial(spellcheck )names for wood species cause problems.It is in constant movement while being worked,and has caused much mischief in the form of "adjusting" jointers.I would use ,if at all , only for the rails.The stiles need to be true mahogany or with a core or something else.Good luck.
    I'd agree that not every piece of African mahogany is suitable for door making, some is fraught with tension and movement. But some is quite close to true Mahogany in terms of stability and working properties. It took me a long time to learn to select it properly. Khaya, as its called, is a marketing term for a number of sub species lumped together into one group. This makes it easier to sell, but not easier to purchase the right stuff. Even in a yard well stocked with "pattern grade" you have to be selective, but good African Mahogany does exist. These days they are harvesting a lot of really bad SA mahogany that isn't suitable for door making either, so that is no sure thing either IME.

  13. #13
    I essentially agree with you in cases where one has some inventory or an unusually patient lumber dealer.But for her project which,which is fairly ambitious,and with a small amount of stock.I think it is a risky bet.Time is precious to talented amateurs and no one wants to her good work spoiled by bad material.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Skillman, NJ
    Posts
    933
    I recently completed my own exterior front entry so I will share some of my insight/experiences with you.

    If you are going to build a solid wood exterior door it MUST be of staved construction or it will eventually warp on you. I suppose you might get lucky if you find weathered wood like 100 years old but not sure even then. In my project I was lucky enough to find 1950's Honduras Mahogany, 8/4 with boards 27 to 30" wide x 12 to 14' long !!(incredibly tight grain) and I still did not take a chance. All parts were created with staves about 1"x1-1/2" by 10 to 11" long then glued and finger jointed together end to end. The faces were then "skinned" with 1/2" pieces to obtain the grain patterns/coloration I wanted, all "edges" were also "skinned". All joints were loose M&T then pegged....glue used was West Systems epoxy....another option I considered vs M&T was threaded rods & bolts...but I liked the pegged look. Key here is to use BOTH mechanical and chemical joint. I would also suggest using the same species of wood for the staves and skins.

    You must be sure you have the wood seasoned well and mill it and then let it sit. This takes many steps and waiting... The same goes for the stave construction...glue then wait, etc.... Over size everything in your glue ups then size it down to what you need after.

    Finish...use a high quality exterior finish that can handle UV. I used Setol door & Window. You must be prepared to refinish the door avery other year or so. Wood must be maintained it is not like a steel door that you install and walk away.

    Site location...where is the door going to be installed? North side, south, etc...as the amount of sun and element exposure will also affect the finish you choose (pigmented stain, paint, clear), how often you must maintain and if you should consider putting a roof over it (portico, in a porch)

    Panels....my panels were a bit smaller than yours but I had of course an inside and outside panel. I put weather stripping in the dados to center the panel and allow expansion/contraction plus the panels have a piece of Tyvek between them.

    I would be concerned with your main styles. I do not feel 5" is wide enough to maintain rigidity. Remember you still have to bore it for locks, and add hinges. You need to design the door hinges based upon weight and size. 3-1/2 of 4 pairs, 3-1/2" or 4" hinges, ball bearing or pinned, etc.....

    Need to think about your saddle....interlocking with metal or wood. How about weather stripping? are you going to "add" later/have it as part of the stop or perhaps use an interlocking metal type.

    I know lots of stuff here but you need to consider it all together as all the pieces will inform each other in the final design.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Skillman, NJ
    Posts
    933
    Rob...since you PM'd me.....
    Stave Construction (see pic above) - solid stock was ripped into very long strips about 1" x 1.5". Then I crosscut them all to about the 10-11" length. All of these short blanks were glued together depending on how wide a part I needed (one could also alternate grain and glue the long strips together, then crosscut & finger join togehter, but I opted for the never going to warp on me more time consuming method) After all these blanks were made I then finger jointed them back together to create long blanks. I rough dressed these blanks and then added a edge strip at the appropriate "exposed finished" side so one did not see all the finger jointed blanks, re-dressed....then applied the "skins" 1/2"+/- thick on either side....then final dressing performed. Final product is one very straight, stable member & really heavy !!

    On the curved members I used the same staved method but the blanks were made very wide and then joined at angles and skinned. Pieces were over sized then I simply cut on the bandsaw and smoothed out with templates and jog on the shaper....

    As an FYI I do not have the "normal" shop equipment This profiling was all done on a shaper...

    My method is very time consuming but it is tried and trued and I know it will never warp on me. I am no longer doing ww'g professionally but I have been asked to make front entries. If their first question is how much? I reply then I am not the guy for you.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •