cyclone selection-- Onieda, Grizzly, or Penn State

[David Kumm]

James, if you have a reaction to dust you need to rethink your system. A cartridge on a direct unit with no preseparation is generally going to clog often which in turn means you have dust in the air every time you use a machine. Wynn filters clean as easily or easier than most and you don't want to clean them with any mechanical means like a brush or paddle. If you stick to the bagger you might want to consider an oversized 2 micron bag instead. If I were you I would look into a 3 hp cyclone with an extra cartridge. Lower flow through the filter media helps the filtration and reduces the cleaning. the cyclone separates enough fines to further reduce the filter loading. If you put a Dylos monitor in your shop I bet you will be surprised at how much dust you are breathing. Dave

[James White]

Hi Dave,

I already have a 3hp collector with a 2 micron bag. The 1.5hp unit with cartride is dedicated to my table saw. What I would like to know is below.

So are any of these units (3hp and above) have washable cartridges? If not would something like the Penn state with no agitator? thingy to remove the dust be OK? I have a low budget due to other needs.

James, if you have a reaction to dust you need to rethink your system. A cartridge on a direct unit with no preseparation is generally going to clog often which in turn means you have dust in the air every time you use a machine. Wynn filters clean as easily or easier than most and you don't want to clean them with any mechanical means like a brush or paddle. If you stick to the bagger you might want to consider an oversized 2 micron bag instead. If I were you I would look into a 3 hp cyclone with an extra cartridge. Lower flow through the filter media helps the filtration and reduces the cleaning. the cyclone separates enough fines to further reduce the filter loading. If you put a Dylos monitor in your shop I bet you will be surprised at how much dust you are breathing. Dave

[David Kumm]

James, I can't tell whether any cartridges are washable. Others will have to speak to that. Usually you don't want an agitator or brush to clean cartridges if you are trying to keep the filtration efficiency high. Compressed air outside to inside is how you clean the Wynn. Have you put a Thien separator on the collector to help keep the stuff out in the first place. I think that will be your best bet. Do you have overhead collection for the blade? I'm not sure a 1.5 hp could handle both the top and the bottom ports. Table saws have crappy shrouding for dust collection so you need lots of cfm to compensate for most machines.

[James White]

No I was going to put a Thien baffle on the 1.5 Delta. But then I would be reducing an already underpowered unit even more. I had already decided on a new cyclone. But then my tractor decided it didn't like that idea.

I am basicaly trying to decide by the end of the day. Whether or not to pull the trigger on the Penn State 3.5 unit or just wait and get the Grizzly later. So I guess I am looking for some feedback on the Penn State unit.

Where did you learn that a paddle will decrease the efficiency of a filter?

James

[David Kumm]

James, the filter is the weak link in the Grizzly in comparison to the Wynn IMO.. Call Dick Wynn and get his advice- way better than mine. The nano fiber Penn State uses is the same as what clear vue uses and very good filtration. Those fine filtration fibers are degraded when physcially cleaned with a paddle or brush but again, take Wynn's advice over mine. Both the Grizzly and Penn State units are sourced in Asia and have Asian motors. The cyclones themselves are close to the same although the Grizzly might be a tad more efficient with the slanted inlet. The Penn State filter is better though. Dave

[James White]

David,

Thank you for your input. I am just of the phone with Penn State and the 3.5HP unit to my door would be $1275. A bit more than I initially thought it was. Therefore my hasty demeanor. However that is still a killer price considering the filters are made by the same manufacturer as the Wynn Nano. I am having a hard time thinking that I would regret purchasing this unit other than not getting the warm and fuzzies of buying USA made. But the equivalent Onida is $1780 plus shipping and the Clear Vue with the Nano cartridges would be $1825 shipped. Am I missing anything?

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/TEMP1535S.html

Clear Vue fan curve can be found here.
Clear Vue Fan Curve.pdf

Oneida 3HP Gorilla
http://www.oneida-air.com/Images/Sta...uper-curve.jpg

James

[Craig Behnke]

I have the Penn State 3.5HP cyclone. Unfortunately I can't compare it to the Oneida or Grizz. I think it represents a good value option. I can't prove it, but from what I've seen from Oneida, i'd say Penn State is a notch lower in quality...and that is reflected in its lower price. I'm not slagging Penn State, I like my system. I got mine used, but brand new in box, and for about 50% off list price, so I thought it represented a good bargain. It is what it is and it works well for me. After 1+ year of use, the system works fantastic and I have no complaints.

The best advice I can give is look on craigslist. I looked for about 3-4 months for the right deal. I was skeptical that I would find numerous options to choose from, but I was pleasantly surprised. Over that time, you get to see quite a few DC systems for sale. After seeing quite a few for sale, you get a feel for what to pay and you can spot one that is a great value and pounce on it.

To save a few bucks, I compromised a bit at first on the duct layout. but after a few months I wound up re-routing the system. What a pain in the arse. Really think about where the ducting needs to go and get the drops in good places to save you future trouble and expense.

I'm sure you know this already, but good ducting, drops, gates, connectors, etc will cost more than the DC itself. That was a surprise to me when I started looking.

[David Kumm]

The Penn State runs a 15" impeller so it will provide about the same cfm as any system with a 15" blower. The cyclone intake is 7" so the 6-7" mains restrict the cfm so the motor won't overamp. At 19 amps the motor pulls the same as Oneida's 5 hp Baldor although likely not as efficient. Price is good when on sale. Second what Craig says about used if you have patience. I bought a used Torit 20-5 commercial cyclone, impeller and Baldor motor for $400. Nano filters are about 160 each and a vfd to run the three phase motor cost 350 used. Much better cyclone construction and design. It can be done. Dave

[James White]

Craig,

I did not pull the trigger last night. The 10% off sale that ended had a max discount of $40. Not enough to make a hasty decision.

How does your cyclone perform as far as dust going to the filters. How often do you empty the dust bin for the filters? Perhaps you can tell us how many 30 gal barrels of shavings/dust clean out.

James

[Craig Behnke]

Craig,

I did not pull the trigger last night. The 10% off sale that ended had a max discount of $40. Not enough to make a hasty decision.

How does your cyclone perform as far as dust going to the filters. How often do you empty the dust bin for the filters? Perhaps you can tell us how many 30 gal barrels of shavings/dust clean out.

James

James,

I think all the fine dust gets trapped by the filters. I have filled the chip bin more than 10 times and I have seen a total of about a teaspoon worth of material in the box that sits under the filters. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I thought the box under the filter was the final collection area for the small/fine particle stuff that doesn't settle down through the cyclone and drop into the large chip bin.

My setup is a double filter stack. here is a picture of the system.100_4886.jpg

[James White]

Hi Craig,

Thank you. You are correct. I think that is a very good indication that the cyclone is doing it's job very well.

James,

I think all the fine dust gets trapped by the filters. I have filled the chip bin more than 10 times and I have seen a total of about a teaspoon worth of material in the box that sits under the filters. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I thought the box under the filter was the final collection area for the small/fine particle stuff that doesn't settle down through the cyclone and drop into the large chip bin.

My setup is a double filter stack. here is a picture of the system.100_4886.jpg

[James White]

Hi Craig,

I was wondering if you could blow some compressed air through the filters and see how much dust they have accumulated so far. I am sure I will not be the last person looking for some owner feedback on this cyclone.

Regards,
James

[Phil Thien]

Hi Craig,

I was wondering if you could blow some compressed air through the filters and see how much dust they have accumulated so far. I am sure I will not be the last person looking for some owner feedback on this cyclone.

Regards,
James

The designs of these cyclones are all so close, in terms of diameter and length, that I very much doubt one would find much difference in their separation rates. CV would probably have a slight edge, though, as the helix they use probably effectively makes the cyclone seem longer.

[David Kumm]

The designs of these cyclones are all so close, in terms of diameter and length, that I very much doubt one would find much difference in their separation rates. CV would probably have a slight edge, though, as the helix they use probably effectively makes the cyclone seem longer.

Correct, and the inlet helps the efficiency too but woodworking cyclones are only partially efficient at separating fine wood dust- 50-60% or so. You do need to blow out the cartridges with compressed air as the fine dust accumulates on the fibers and won't drop down to the bottom without some stimulus- either air or by shaking. Shaking works for bags but not so much for cartridges. Dave

[Rick Markham]

I looked at Clear Vue but they are about $1700 for the upgraded MERV15 filter and no stand or collection bin, but does have 300 sqft filter area. I don't see a significant advantage over Oneida which has a very good reputation, good support help, made in USA, all heay duty metal construction, etc.

The advantage of the ClearVue is the 5HP Leeson motor. If you are turning a large impeller such as 15" the motor needs a HP rating high enough not to overwork itself. 3HP isn't enough... my clearvue will be running long after the lower HP machines will be down waiting for replacement motors. The plastic really isn't a hindrance, it's well designed, assembled, and it's light so you don't need a big stand.(minimizing your footprint) The whole thing is designed to fit neatly over a standard 31 gallon trash can, not terribly hard to find those, and they are cheap so you can have several. It helps when planing a ton of stuff to only have to switch over your trash can, instead of stop, go empty the can and start all over. Just my $.02 Good luck!