Timber Frame Workshop (and house...)

[Jim Becker]

Todd, the 21' spans in my shop building are built with 12" engineered joists 16" OC. You'd likely need the equivalent load bearing capability for however you choose to build. Even if this is DIY, get everything reviewed by a structural engineer...

[Brad Morse]

Todd,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

"If I understand you correctly, a 40 foot span is more difficult with a timer frame, and putting a second floor on top of that, with a heavy live load requirement, is even more difficult. Correct? "

Yup, exactly. You can do it sure, but it's a little much, and probably isn't necessary with a slightly different design. You can span 40' or much more with a timber frame, as many churches and buildings are. And you can put some load on that truss, but probably not all of your lumber storage. Nevermind putting a roof load in the middle of the span.

Gluelams may very well help you out, and you can get some pretty nice ones. But again, you may be able to avoid a lot of complications with a different design scheme.

You can see some of my work at www.uncarvedblockinc.com (which really needs to be updated with some new projects), or through Facebook.

Brad

[Todd Burch]

How does one determine an estimate for live load for a shop floor or 2nd floor lumber storage?

For the shop floor, I have one particular machines that weighs 1200 pounds (Felder AD751) and has a footprint of about 6 square feet. So, that's 200/lbs per sf. Right?

A stickered stack (1" lumber, with 1" stickers) of oak lumber, 4' wide, 12' long, 5' high, seasoned dry, will weigh ~5,640 lbs, with a footprint of 48 sf, that's 117.5 lbs/sf. Is that right?

(Oak weight: @ 47 lbs/cubic foot per this: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/weigt-wood-d_821.html )

Thanks, Todd

[Jim Andrew]

If you are using the manufactured beams and I joists, the company that supplies the material will do the load and recommend the proper beams and joists. You have to submit plans, but they offer that service. Talk to your supplier.

[Carl Beckett]

Beautiful work Brad! Thanks for sharing!

[Todd Burch]

Well, it doesn't look like I'll be having a timberframe, not that I don't want to. If I win the lottery in the next couple weeks, that might change. In the meantime, I'm back to planning a stick-built shop. Perhaps I'll appoint it with some decorative timbers later on to get the feel of a timber frame.

I'm still planning my new digs. I had a thought that instead of building a 1664+/- sf shop and a 975+/- sf garage, to build one larger structure to combine the garage and workshop. I've checked with a couple people and a both agreed that 1 building would be less expensive than 2 separate buildings. What say you?

However, with a combined building, the majority of the workshop would either need to be on the 2nd floor, or, it would have to be one much bigger 1-story structure. I do have a large enough lot to have everything on 1 floor, but that would be a pretty good sized bldg.

1664+975 = 2639, so for a (golden section shaped) building that big, it would be roughly 40.5 x 66. Which, I guess, in the scheme of things, isn't so huge after all. Here's one of my original drawings, stretched out 6' to be 40 X 66, and I think it might work. I've shown it from the underneath to show roughly how it would be partitioned. The front garage would be the 40.5' wide x 24' deep, and the back shop would be 40.5 X 42. I would also have the raised center section, of 66' x 18' or so. A ton of storage room.

[Jim Becker]

I like that design, Todd...and it has a style that should look attractive and interesting that is hard to have with the typical "box" building. The shed-row roof is an excellent idea, too.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Funny, I was just coming here to post a timber frame shop idea and you beat me to it. Your barn is my dream shop. I have much less funds than you and I found one already designed that works well for me. It has a low hip roof which is good for here in hurricane alley.

http://www.davisframe.com/timber-fra...e-Gallery.aspx

Here is something I did up, adding a shed roof to one side for storage and for a place to have batteries for a solar system. The view to the S and E are ocean and island views, hence all the windows. I want to stand there doing handwork while looking at the ocean.

[Val Kosmider]

I have some family that built a timber frame house. In order to get started, they built a three car garage with an overhead apartment. It gave them housing, a place to keep their cars, and a place to work while the house was coming together. Now thery have a nice guest apartment, and a great place for a worshop.

They did a LOT of the work themselves after having a TF company do the shell and the close in work. Once you are dried in, time no longer becomes so pressing, especially when you have the apartment in which to live, and a dry place in which to work.

I don't know the exact costs, but their project was modest in scope and probably costs about 125% of what a comparable stick frame building would cost. I think in the end they are very happy with the results, and the additional cost was more than worth it.

They are quite handy and resourceful, but cutting, milling drying and then 'working' the timbers themselves was never a serious option. Mostly the cost to do it all yourself is overwhelming, and the number of years involved was just too long a time frame for them to consider.

[Todd Burch]

It's been 15 months since I started this thread, and I don't feel any closer to getting this done, but I know I am.

The focus for the last several months has been on a new house. We sold our house back in April 2013, and have moved to the country and are renting. Renting is getting old quick. We're narrowing down our list of choices to two or three builders for a house. It will look like a farmhouse, with big front and rear porches. We decided we will go with the original plan and split the garage and shop into 2 separate buildings instead of building one larger building. It will fit the property better, be better for our views and create more privacy.

I have gone through so many iterations of options (for house and garage and shop) my head has about spun off. It seems that having both the garage and shop built is going to cost about $100K combined. Last quote I got on the garage (25' x 39', slab on grade, two 9X9 openings on the front gable, and one 10X10 opening on the rear of the left side, metal roof, open stud walls and hardi siding to match the house) was about $47/sf.

I also got a quote from Country Carpenters, up in CT for one of their Timber Frame barn kits. This kit, 26' x 36', decked out with windows, transoms, cupola and doors, delivered, would run just under $47K if ordered by the end of of year. I would still have to add costs for a slab and roof, plus erection costs and electrical. It would be timber frame though. http://www.countrycarpenters.com/a12.htm

I did contact Morton, to get a feel for the cost of a pair of matching buildings for the shop and garage. The steepest pitch they have for a roof is 8/12, and with that option, for both buildings, I'm looking at just about $100K there too, and I would still have to build the 2nd floor in the shop, and cover the inside of the shop with walls to hide wiring and cut down on the noise of a metal building bouncing sound everywhere.

Decisions, decisions.

[Rich Konopka]

Todd,

Thanks for sharing the information. Does the Country Carpenter plan Include / allow for SIP's? We are just finishing up renovating our new home we bought and its time to build a new shop. The Mrs. really likes the idea of the Timber frame as opposed to Stick built. Based on your numbers would you estimate that with stick frame vs. KIT the price differential is approximately 25%?

[Todd Burch]

Hi Rich. I don't have complete numbers, but my gut feel is that the price difference to get the stick framed structure to the same completion point of the Country Carpenter's model is about 40-50% more for the kit. You have add assembly/erection costs to that kit price. Your slab would be the same, roof the same, and then all interior bits (insulation, wiring, plumbing, yada, yada, yada) would be the same cost for either option.

Now, as a percentage of the whole project, perhaps the overall difference would be closer to 25-30%.

Todd

[Todd Burch]

Well, if you open the dictionary, and flip through and find "indecisive", you'll find a picture of me.

I'm back on the timber frame pursuit. I have a question about insulation, and a term that is not used much around here, called "wrap and strap".

Here's the building I'm thinking about. 42' x 42'. 12' first floor. 12/12 pitch. 3' knee wall.

SketchUpScreenSnapz051.jpg

I've drawn a cut-away section of what I'm interpreting a "wrap and strap" system might look like.

SketchUpScreenSnapz050.jpg

Has anyone done a wrap and strap? Am I close?

The one concern I have right now is that, as drawn, the vertical siding touches the edge of my curb, and my PT 2X4 only sits about 1/2 way on top of the PT 2x12 sill.

I've got a line on some recycled polyiso rigid foam, 3.5" thick, 4' x 4'. To get enough to do the whole building and roof would run about $4500. Does this sound good?

Thanks, Todd

[Chris Padilla]

Maybe this is too simplistic a solution but why not adjust things so your vertical siding is beyond the curb? You know, sort of out in free space.

[Todd Burch]

I worked out the overhang issue… I think.

Here's a video that shows more details worked out.

http://youtu.be/jNdipEU3xoo

Thanks for any comments and suggestions for improvements or alternate methods.

Todd