Volume Metal Marking

[David Rust]

Hi All,

Is it practical to mark metal widgets in volume with a CO2 laser and Cermark? I am considering expanding my business by proposing my services to local manufacturers, specifically targeting the marking of metal (steel, stainless, etc...) widgets. For arguments sake lets say I pick up an order of 500 widgets per week (I am a part time shop). To be more specific lets say a widget is approximately 2"x3" and I get them in a lot of 100 at a time (processing 100 per night). Let's also say that I need to mark them with a 10digit part number and a 10 digit serial number. Lastly let's assume that I have a 50watt Helix (24"x18").

Questions for the experienced:
1. Is it practical to prep this volume of widgets with Cermark and burn with a CO2 laser or is this a Fibre Laser job.
2. Does Corel have a "function" to auto increment tHe serial number or do I need to hand type in each and every serial number for each widget?

Thanks,
Dave (Still a Newbie)

[Mike Null]

I've been doing such jobs with Cermark for years and consider them to be among my most profitable. You can auto increment numbers. See Roy Brewer's tutorials on Engraving Concepts web site.

[Rodne Gold]

Precoating and leaving certain metals/grades of metals can lead to staining , you have to check for this , best is to leave the marking compound on for as short as possible. If you are doing volume work , this form of marking becomes very profitable (unless someone with a YAG is cutting your throat price wise) as you can reclaim about 90% of the marking compound you use and reuse it...
Work out a cycle time , ie how long you need to do each object. Most of your time will be spent unpacking, preparing , spraying and then washing off and drying/repacking .. so don't depend on laser time being anywhere close to what it will take to do 100....
Make sure the price you charging is worth it to you , a 100 widgets at even an optimistic 3 minutes per item is 5 hours .. more than a light evenings work..

[Richard Rumancik]

If you are doing a lot of parts I suggest that you make a rectangular mask (with the laser - from mylar or similar material). Then develop a setup where you can quickly mask the marking zone, shoot a bit of Cermark on it with the airbrush, and set it aside to dry. If it is a functional mark (s/n or p/n) then if the rectangular zone leaves a bit of a shadow (stain) it probably will be okay to the customer. I made one fixture on a stand where I could just hold the part behind the mask with one hand and use the airbrush with the other. It can go pretty fast.

You are lucky if you can get jobs with small parts to mark; if the parts are bulky then as Rodne notes the packing and unpacking and material handling in general will be a substantial effort.

Looking at Rodne's estimate, would the customer be willing to pay $3 or $4 or $5 for eash part? They may think this is pricey but you won't make any money at a dollar a part.

[greg lindsey]

Here's my imput, I do a min of 350 tags a day, somedays upwards of 500, cermark is quick and easy, until it comes to the cleaning part. I have a part-timer that does all the cleaning. It does take awhile to clean and dry ea part so be sure you take that into acct. At 6.50 a tag, it is a profitable way to go. I just had a job of 4000 tags, I bought an old dish washer at a garage sale for 50.00, It worked perfectly for cleaning that job.

[Avraham Monina]

Here's my imput, I do a min of 350 tags a day, somedays upwards of 500, cermark is quick and easy, until it comes to the cleaning part. I have a part-timer that does all the cleaning. It does take awhile to clean and dry ea part so be sure you take that into acct. At 6.50 a tag, it is a profitable way to go. I just had a job of 4000 tags, I bought an old dish washer at a garage sale for 50.00, It worked perfectly for cleaning that job.

lol thats genius right there!!!

[matthew knott]

With that number of tags would it not make sense to buy a fibre laser for $20k, no cermark no mess and cut the engraving time right down, payback would be fairly quick and open up new avenues

[Mike Null]

From what I've seen of fibre marks they're not as dark and they take a long time unless you've got a powerful machine. Way more than $20,000. The marks also wear off easier.

[Ross Moshinsky]

We don't do a lot of bare metal marking for huge quantities. Unless you are priced to do wholesale work, there isn't a chance you're going to be priced near what a YAG can do most of the time.

Sometimes the best jobs are ones you outsource. There might be someone around the corner from you who can do the job faster and cheaper than you.

The best thing you can do is try things out. Buy some stainless steel items and mark them. See how long it takes. Figure out whether you like doing the work. Get a feel for that type of job. You probably could do a nice sample run of 100 pcs for less than $100. That $100 might end up making you $10,000 or saving you $10,000. You never know unless you experiment.

[Joe Hillmann]

You will probably spend more time washing and drying the parts then engraving. When washing parts after engraving waterspots are often a problem if you don't dry them right away. I have found that adding a squirt of jet dry to the wash water helps in preventing the spots. I have also found that you can dry them after washing them by dipping them in boiling water for a few seconds. The boiling water heats up the part and when you pull it out the heat causes the part to dry much quicker than it would if it weren't heated.

Also, if you end up doing a lot of engraving of parts that need to be washed, putting a sink in the same room as the laser could make the work flow easier. Right now in my shop the only running water is in the basement which means when I am washing I can't run the laser because I can't keep an eye on it.


And with all that said, it might be worth hiring the job out to someone with a yag. It could probably mark them as quick as you can load them and on some metals you could actually engrave into rather than just mark and still be quicker than co2. And then you avoid the spraying and clean up all together.

[Josiah Gallo]

From what I've seen of fibre marks they're not as dark and they take a long time unless you've got a powerful machine. Way more than $20,000. The marks also wear off easier.

I've not experienced that with our yag. The mark is a little bit different shade of black, but more permanent (harder to buff off, and it has little bit of depth). With the right settings it looks better than with cermark. Much crisper and more detailed as well.
When you consider no painting/cleaning, they are much faster to mark SS

[Mike Null]

Josiah

How powerful is your YAG and how much did it cost?