Mortising Technique

[Charlie Stanford]

I would rather have a decent tapered oval bolstered or sash mortise chisel. I played with the bevel edge chisel (even used a marples) to see if I could find the speed difference he supposedly finds, but I found the RI (or any more properly sized mortise chisel) to be faster and more accurate.

The thing he uses to compare to the bevel chisel in his video looks like a fence post - i don't know who in their right mind would use something that large and blunt for cabinetmaking.

If budget constraint is an issue...like a severe one, the bench chisels are fine. If you can even afford a small tapered sash mortise chisel like the narex, I would much rather have that. The difference is like shooting a rifle off of a bench rest (with the mortise chisel) vs. being forced to shoot freehand (when the bench chisel attempts to turn, you'll see what I mean, you don't get that twisting with a tapered mortise chisel).

David, it's awfully difficult to argue with video and two mortises cut side by side in real time and apparently unedited. Be frustrated with yourself, not Sellers. The results, simply, speak for themselves. Your inability to replicate them has nothing to do with Sellers.

[David Weaver]

Charles, troll somewhere else.

Read the comment at the bottom of this page of a *properly* sized oval bolstered mortise chisel. I wonder why it wasn't said about a bench chisel.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/s...ls_by_Ray_Iles

"The best chisel I have ever used." - Paul Sellers

[Charlie Stanford]

Charles, troll somewhere else.

Read the comment at the bottom of this page of a *properly* sized oval bolstered mortise chisel. I wonder why it wasn't said about a bench chisel.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/s...ls_by_Ray_Iles

"The best chisel I have ever used." - Paul Sellers

In the intro to the video Sellers clearly states that there is a time and a place for using a traditional mortise chisel. Frankly, there really wasn't much to criticize about the first mortise he cut. One can only wonder why you insist on finding a bone to pick. Nobody else really has. What's up with that? You seem to want to stand in front of the freight train of obvious success and scream that it's moving down the tracks all wrong. Splat.

[David Weaver]

Charles, you might as well cut and paste your posts from a different forum, it's worse than a broken record. Anyone here can make up their own mind which way they prefer by actually going to the shop and trying both, there's plenty of people already trumpeting the experience of someone else's in a video as their own.

If I would've used a fence post mortise chisel like is used in the video, I would've come to the same conclusion. Using a reasonably sized mortise chisel, I didn't. That simple, and if other people didn't think the desire of the bench chisel to twist was annoying, they wouldn't have commented the same in the video.

Who'd figure you'd get trolled for actual experience vs. pitching someone else's video?

[Charlie Stanford]

Charles, you might as well cut and paste your posts from a different forum, it's worse than a broken record. Anyone here can make up their own mind which way they prefer by actually going to the shop and trying both, there's plenty of people already trumpeting the experience of someone else's in a video as their own.

If I would've used a fence post mortise chisel like is used in the video, I would've come to the same conclusion. Using a reasonably sized mortise chisel, I didn't. That simple, and if other people didn't think the desire of the bench chisel to twist was annoying, they wouldn't have commented the same in the video.

Who'd figure you'd get trolled for actual experience vs. pitching someone else's video?

David, I'm afraid you're the broken record. Anybody who disagrees with you or draws attention to your incessant whining when some bubble of yours is burst is automatically a 'troll.' You've peed and moaned about the Sellers video all over the internet.

I don't really understand the term 'fence post mortise chisel.' Nor the obviously subjective 'reasonably sized' mortise chisel either. Maybe it would be easier if you posted your own video to show us exactly what you mean. In the meantime, nothing you've said, observed, claimed to have achieved in your own shop, or attempted to point out takes anything away from Sellers cutting two nice mortises, with two different chisels, and in a very respectable amount of time.

Buy a piece of plexiglass and please show us all how it's supposed to be done.

[Roy Lindberry]

David, I'm afraid you're the broken record. Anybody who disagrees with you or draws attention to your incessant whining when some bubble of yours is burst is automatically a 'troll.' You've peed and moaned about the Sellers video all over the internet.

I don't really understand the term 'fence post mortise chisel.' Nor the obviously subjective 'reasonably sized' mortise chisel either. Maybe it would be easier if you posted your own video to show us exactly what you mean. In the meantime, nothing you've said, observed, claimed to have achieved in your own shop, or attempted to point out takes anything away from Sellers cutting two nice mortises, with two different chisels, and in a very respectable amount of time.

Buy a piece of plexiglass and please show us all how it's supposed to be done.

If I could intervene....

Obviously, people will have different preferences. That's actually what the thread is about. Some people will prefer the bevel edge bench chisels, and some the beefier mortise chisels, and still others will like something in between. I would hope we could all respect that.

With that said, it seems to me that the point of Sellers' video wasn't about the chisel per se, but more about the technique of starting, going progressively deeper each step at the bevel of the chisel, and then returning the other direction. Most other processes I've found are more about deepening the mortise one layer at a time across its full width, and when I went to the shop, Sellers' method worked 10 times better than anything I've tried before - and remember, I wasn't using the bevel edged chisel. I was using a Narex mortise chisel. On my next project, I may try the bench chisels, just to see how they perform.

For now, it is enough that Sellers chopped two good mortises in the time in normally takes me to do a half a mortise, and my experience is that his technique, not necessarily the chisel, is responsible for that. It worked for me.

[Tri Hoang]

I actually tried Paul Sellers' mortising approach with a LN mortise chisel, a firmer bevel edge chisel, and a Ray Iles mortise chisel. I can say without any reservation that the firmer bevel edge chisel works best with his technique. The shorter bevel works better for leveraging in deep mortises. One's inability to use Paul's technique effectively does not invalidate it.

This man has 47+ years of practical woodworking experience. I rather learn from him than most other forum experts.

[Adam Cruea]

I actually tried Paul Sellers' mortising approach with a LN mortise chisel, a firmer bevel edge chisel, and a Ray Iles mortise chisel. I can say without any reservation that the firmer bevel edge chisel works best with his technique. The shorter bevel works better for leveraging in deep mortises. One's inability to use Paul's technique effectively does not invalidate it.

This man has 47+ years of practical woodworking experience. I rather learn from him than most other forum experts.

Just because a guy can do something speedy with a tool not necessarily meant for the job means that it is the right way, wrong way, or the best way. It's his way.

Not to sound trollish, yippee! He has 47+ years. Bake him a cake and give him a cigar. I've been in my profession 7 years and schooled people with 5 times the number of years in it.

Seniority and believing someone is right just because of the years they've spent in a profession is a pretty crappy mentality and perpetuates mistakes. Instead of pointing and saying "Ooooh, look! Mr. 'Done this all his life' did it this way! That's the right way.", realize that's the way *he* does it and *he* has found out it works. Obviously, his isn't the only right way, or the best way for everyone, as there is a reason there's enough demand for mortise chisels to get them produced.

If you're that worried about time and "getting done faster", use a drill press. Better yet, a mortise cutter. :P

Or you can just go about your business, say "This is how well it works for me, good for him that he can do it a different way" and go beat the snot out of some wood.

[Charlie Stanford]

If I could intervene....

Obviously, people will have different preferences. That's actually what the thread is about. Some people will prefer the bevel edge bench chisels, and some the beefier mortise chisels, and still others will like something in between. I would hope we could all respect that.

With that said, it seems to me that the point of Sellers' video wasn't about the chisel per se, but more about the technique of starting, going progressively deeper each step at the bevel of the chisel, and then returning the other direction. Most other processes I've found are more about deepening the mortise one layer at a time across its full width, and when I went to the shop, Sellers' method worked 10 times better than anything I've tried before - and remember, I wasn't using the bevel edged chisel. I was using a Narex mortise chisel. On my next project, I may try the bench chisels, just to see how they perform.

For now, it is enough that Sellers chopped two good mortises in the time in normally takes me to do a half a mortise, and my experience is that his technique, not necessarily the chisel, is responsible for that. It worked for me.

I don't doubt it a moment.

[Charlie Stanford]

You write as if you were almost being commanded to cut mortises using Sellers' technique. He cut two mortises well. That's indisputable. People are obviously free to simply ignore the video. If you found something that you'd call a "mistake" in the finished mortises I'd be very interested to know what they are.

[lowell holmes]

Paul is a gifted woodworker and an absolute gentleman. I've witnessed his skills many times and I am always blown away at how easily accomplishes joints.

He is a talented, patient teacher.

[David Weaver]

I actually tried Paul Sellers' mortising approach with a LN mortise chisel, a firmer bevel edge chisel, and a Ray Iles mortise chisel. I can say without any reservation that the firmer bevel edge chisel works best with his technique. The shorter bevel works better for leveraging in deep mortises. One's inability to use Paul's technique effectively does not invalidate it.

This man has 47+ years of practical woodworking experience. I rather learn from him than most other forum experts.

I haven't seen anyone on most forums insisting anyone learn anything from them. The forum is an exchange of information, not a class or technical manual.

I'm only aware of one expert on this section of the forum, who has a more impressive book of work than anyone I've seen on any blog or anyone offering fantasy camp classes. The only suggestion anyone else on here can really make is to try things for yourself and see how it works out.

[Tom Scott]

Paul is a gifted woodworker and an absolute gentleman. I've witnessed his skills many times and I am always blown away at how easily accomplishes joints.

He is a talented, patient teacher.

I couldn't agree more. Paul has probably forgotten more about woodworking than I have learned. You can dismiss his experience, but the fact is he went through a traditional hand tool apprenticeship in England and has been working professionally and teaching ever since. His techniques are not necessarily conventional and have come from his experience. Take it for what it's worth. Myself, I took a week long handtool course from him 15 years ago, didn't know jack squat before, and learned all the basics to set me down the path.
Do I still use bench chisels for mortises? No, but I have and could again if in a pinch. But, I still use the same technique I learned from Paul.

[Gaz Palmer]

The lesson to be learned - as intended by Paul Sellers - is that bevel edged and firmer chisels can be used to cut mortise if one lacks purpose made mortise chisels. Speed comes with practise and not necessarily at the cost of accuracy and Paul's videos and online activity tends toward encouraging novice woodworkers and enthusing the fact they don't need to invest heavily in tools in order to participate or carry out craft activities.

[Charlie Stanford]

The lesson to be learned - as intended by Paul Sellers - is that bevel edged and firmer chisels can be used to cut mortise if one lacks purpose made mortise chisels. Speed comes with practise and not necessarily at the cost of accuracy and Paul's videos and online activity tends toward encouraging novice woodworkers and enthusing the fact they don't need to invest heavily in tools in order to participate or carry out craft activities.

The original brouhaha over the Sellers video was when Paul posted his video shortly (within two weeks if memory serves) after Lie-Nielsen posted a video of Peter Follansbee chopping a mortise. Follansbee used a "traditional" (what a loaded term) pig sticker and produced what the more dispassionate saw as a barely average effort. Follansbee cut his mortise fairly quickly but the results were surprisingly rough and inaccurate, he clearly went past his end lines with the chisel and it just generally looked messier and haphazardly done. I'm sure the video is still available on YouTube if you haven't seen it.

Sellers' video was juxtaposed to Follansbee's on the forums at that time. Surprisingly, reactions lead one to believe that a lot of people thought Follansbee's technique must have represented the 'state of the art' in hand chopped mortise work. They didn't seem to like Mr. Sellers video since the mortise he chopped, first with a pig sticker, was cleaner and more accurate, cut in the same amount of time, and tended to show better technique in the joint. But the real kicker of course was when Sellers chopped a second mortise with a Blue Chip and the results were even cleaner AND faster.

Incredibly, Sellers is seen as an upstart by some which I'm sure gives him a huge chuckle given his age and experience.