It enters the wood more easily simply because it is less thick in section.
Guest
It enters the wood more easily simply because it is less thick in section.
Contributor
Charlie,I see your point.But I don't think that is what is happening with this mortise technique thing .This is more like some chefs being unimpressed with a Ron Popiel infomercial.
Guest
Exactly why I asked for the need to use the largest possible chisel, other than to get the results you want. Could be unintentional, who knows.Originally Posted by Charlie Stanford
I'll mark my calendar to come back and put a poll up for this in a month (unless someone does it in the interim). See how many people have tried. Other than that, it's pretty much a completely dead thread at missing only the boilerplate conspiracy charge against current toolmakers to be cut and paste from old the old knots template.
Contributor
Did someone say there is only one way making a mortise is supposed to be done?Buy a piece of plexiglass and please show us all how it's supposed to be done.
Some folks like to drill and pare, hurrah for them.
Some like a light handed approach with a bench chisel, whoopee!
Some like to whack away with a big mallet and a mortise chisel, KABAM!
And surely, there are a dozen other ways that work wonders for many others, whew.
What ever works best for the person doing the job is the "right way."
Just because someone does it differently than me isn't a reason to belittle them.
Having done mortises by drilling first and cleaning up or with bevel edged, square edged and mortise chisels it has become my preference to use a mortise chisel when one of the desired size is available. Whack, whack, whack, lever, whack, whack, whack, lever and it all gets done quick and neat.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
Possibly because it was what was at hand for the demonstration.
As one who has done similar demonstrations, it often helps to bring home a point that a task can be done when one doesn't have the optimal tool for the job. It sometimes helps to make the point of the demonstration stick with the viewers of the demonstration.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
Yep .I know I will never forget seeing that chicken plucked with the Veguhmatic.
Guest
Your problem seems to be that you need the video validated by some poll or by some preponderance of woodworkers making a wholesale change and if people don't you're biliousness is justified. Of course, that's ridiculous. The video was clearly offered on a 'for what it's worth' basis. Try if you care. Don't if you don't. The problem is that two mortises were nicely cut with two entirely different chisels. An expert craftsman's skills were on display. I wouldn't be shocked to know that a lot of people can't replicate the results. I certainly cannot. But it doesn't change a thing. The man was simply demonstrating two chisels but more than that his expertise - whether you like admitting it or not. "I can cut one with this.... watch me cut one with that..."
Guest
If we had people responding that had the same level of skill and a similar resume as Sellers I would tend to agree. But, I don't think that's the case.
Sometimes a cut vegetable is just a cut vegetable.
Member
My impression or gut feeling having chopped mortises with both bench chisel and stouter mortise-style chisels (the Narex mortise chisels, which have a blade fairly similar in style to an English "pigsticker" chisel) is that with at lower forces, (either a less force from my arm, or a lighter mallet) a single whack makes the bench chisel penetrate somewhat further. I would presume that this is because there is less metal to force into the wood, so you get more cutting and less pushing and displacing.
Once you've got a bit of an opening for the waste chips to move themselves into, rather than just trying to wedge the blade into solid wood, this difference seems to disappear, which would make sense. Sometimes it almost seems like the longer bevel of the mortise-style chisel almost allows it to continue to take a bigger bite if there's open space for the waste to move to, as the bevel continues to push the waste further away with each stroke.
With a heavier force behind the chisel, though, (either a stronger stroke or heavier mallet - I prefer to use a heavier mallet and more of a dropping motion than trying to increase the force of my swing, though) the mortise chisel seems to sink deeper with each stroke than my bench chisels. It feels or seems like this might be because the chisel is stouter. My impression would be that while I might not bend a bench chisel that wasn't particularly delicate, there is some flex in it, and that flex would be absorbing some of the force of the mallet, rather than presenting it to the wood. I feel like I get to a point with a bench chisel, where a harder hit doesn't make it sink any more, and it seems to me that I hit the maximum penetration earlier than I do with my mortise-style chisels.
I don't know if any of this is actually happening, or how to test it, it's just my my impression based on my (albeit limited) experience. No idea if any of this equates to a faster mortise.
Where I like my mortise-style chisels over my bench chisels is that they are easier for me to register to the work - I can feel plumb and square better with them. That's just a personal thing, though. The sharper arrises between the blade back and sides also allow for a bit of a scraping action which tends to result in very clean walls for me.
One thing I really like about Seller's video, that it demonstrates well, and that took me a while to figure out when I first mortised by hand (and I wish I had heard about somewhere else) is to take into consideration how the bevel of the chisel will move the chisel through the wood, and how you can work with that by angling the chisel out of plumb. Would have saved me some pain on my first attempts at mortises had I thought about it!
" Be willing to make mistakes in your basements, garages, apartments and palaces. I have made many. Your first attempts may be poor. They will not be futile. " - M.S. Bickford, Mouldings In Practice
Contributor
I thought it a good analogy because there are things that can be a help to doing something that are at the same time not something that one with a high skill level would find effective. The criticism comes from the belief that where instruction is being sold the aim should be to develop skill not just find a way to get it done .Trade work masters have never been happy to see that their apprentices deviate from instruction. And once the apprentices learn they seldom think the way they thought up on their first day was any good.
Guest
I think that an extremely high level of skill, practice, and expertise were on display in the video. That explains the outstanding results. Sellers has a woodworking school where he sells craft instruction. Who would want to buy such instruction from somebody with no skill?
Contributor
There was a video postd here a while back with Roy showing a mortise chop against a piece of glass, so you could see what was happening at the pointy end of the tool
I found it very valuable to helping me understand some of what was going on.
Contributor
Good point .Time will tell if his method gets traction, choice is good.
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