forming & painting acrylic signs

[Will Huff]

I guess I should start out with a little intro.
I am a Jeep enthusiast who has been on the hunt for an original dealership sign for awhile, and most of what I've found has been really
huge and across the country (which is really cool, but I just can't pay 800 bucks for freight shipping), in poor condition, or
overpriced. I want a few simple, backlit display signs to hang in my garage, and after seeing a few of the signs in person I figured what the heck, why not make one. I started digging into research and found out the signs I'm looking for are backlit vacuum formed acrylic, 2 sided and usually mounted on an aluminum ballast. I've got the wiring, lighting, ballast, and acrylic down. I'm even going to build a vacuum forming box that I found plans for on the internet to get the basic sign shape. The only not-quite-obvious piece of information I am missing is how to go
about painting these signs. I have examined them in person and I realize how the paint is being layered, but several questions still
remain, and I'm hoping the people here could at least point me in the right direction. First, what type of paint is used on these signs? I
don't think its your standard can of krylon, I would imagine its carefully applied to avoid spotchyness in the light that has to shine through the sign? After all, anyone who has seen a vintage acrylic car dealership sign knows how beautifully the light shines through the letters on the sign after dark. Whatever the type or thickness of paint used I'd imagine it has to be very evenly applied. Anyway, I've got pretty much no idea as to the paint materials involved or the process, so anyone who could put me on a step in the right direction would be awesome. I'm going to try and do everything myself, so I'd be willing to perfect the skill nessecary to do a high-quality paint job on the signs. I have attached a few pictures of what I'm talking about in case anyone is not sure.


Finally, I decided to make a post here because many of my google searches brought me to threads on this forum, and the people here seem
to be really on the ball with sign making and know what they are doing, much more than I could ever hope to learn. So if this is the
wrong place to ask a question about this, I apologize and invite everyone to continue on with their projects.

Thank you all!


IMG_20120606_172726.jpg5I75K65H23Kb3Ge3J5c9i6326f2a89d0d1cf0.jpgAMC Sign - Wagoneer - 003.jpgBragaAMCJeepMarshalltownIA2.jpgsign2.jpg

[Joe Pelonio]

Those old signs were mass-produced, and the "paint" is actually screen printed ink. I have restored them, using denatured alcohol to remove the old faded ink. Then I would measure carefully and reproduce the lettering/logos in my design software and cut vinyl on the plotter to apply in place of the ink. The vinyl is opaque but also available in translucent if the color is to be back lit and the light penetrates nice and evenly, better even than the original ink. Paint will do a lot better if sprayed since brush marks will show when lit, but then you need a mask and as long as you are doing that it's a lot easier to just cut the vinyl and apply.

[Don Nicholas]

will,
Photos 1,3,4and 5 appear to be what is called pan formed faces, photo 2 is a flat face. what Joe said in his above post is entirely true. You may want to consider using a white plex flat face for your project I believe the white color plex is #7328. then contact a local sign company to cut the vinyl for you to apply yourself.you need to order translucent vinyl for the Red and Blue colors and Opaque for the Black. for the illumination, keep in mind the lamp spacing in the Cab.
T12 lamps are 1-1/2" in dia. 12" O/C is normal spacing and the rule of thumb is 1/2 the distance between the center spacing of the lamps to the face of the sign, this will determine the depth of the cab you will need. The reason for these measurements is so that the lamps will not show "hot spots" and you sign will illuminate evenly. You could use 800 ma or 425ma lamps.
Hope this helps and good luck with your project. Let us know how it all works out.
Cheers
Don
Retired from 40 years in the sign business.

[Scott Shepherd]

Just to add to what Joe and Don have said, the paint used in these is more often than not, Matthews Paint, which is a tailored to the sign business. For panels painted with translucent paint that will be internally lit, they'll actually take a light and out the panel in front of the light when they paint so they can make sure there are no "hot spots".

SprayLat is also another sign paint company that offers similar products. Be forewarned, sign paint isn't cheap, but there is nothing better for the application of sign painting.

[Don Nicholas]

Scott is correct on all points he suggested. IMHO the Vinyl method would be the most cost effective rout to go since your project is a one off. If you go on the Vinyl method, make sure the Vinyl comes to you "masked" for application. I am sure they would provide you with instruction as too the application process to your sign face.

[Will Huff]

Thank you all for your help and wonderful advice. I could not have asked for better answers. I am not entirely sure which method I am going to use for the signs yet. If the first sign comes out good, I will probably do several more and plaster them all over the walls. I might even sell a couple. I like the idea of cutting and applying vinyl, that seems inexpensive and something I could easily do myself. At the same time, this sign will be hanging in my garage and I'm not really worried about it looking brand new. In fact, the more original/vintage it looks, the better

I'm probably going to call some local sign shops this week and see about getting some quotes for pre-formed white faces. Shipping large sheets and forming them myself is going to be too much work. If I'm going to be paying a lot for shipping, I might as well just buy them from a local place and pick them up. They move them in and out a lot anyway and might even be cheaper, plus I will be supporting local businesses.

The first sign I am doing is going to be flat face, unless I can get a good local or online price on a pan face.
It will be modeled after a sign I know about that a local guy owns that I've been trying to buy for the last few years. See the attachment. He just lets it sit outside I'm going to make a simple wood ballast probably, I will check and see how much scrap sheet metal I have sitting around. Wiring for the lighting will be done by me.

I did a little digging on screen printing on acrylic and came up with this: http://www.jacquardproducts.com/foru...cplexiglass/p1
Which led me here: http://www.artsupplywarehouse.com/fi....php?id=280050

Pretty cheap, overall, and if I can get decent at printing I might be able to go that route.

I'm probably going to see if a local shop has some scrap acrylic I can experiment on. The forum post says to mix the ink with an extender to get the color right if you need transparency, so I'm going to play around with proper mixtures. If the printing fails miserably, I can walk away with a good experience and out relatively little money, and move on to vinyl.

I am planning on printing the AMC logo, and if I can get my acrylic in white, masking off the lettering and just painting the black since it is opaque anyway. I'm going to try it on scraps first, put it in front of some lights, if it looks like crap I wll do something different.

The design comes soon

localsign.jpg

[Don Nicholas]

Will,
The face you are showing appears to be what is called a "formed and embossed" face. So you can talk the "sign lingo"
That will be much more expensive and is most likely formed from CLEAR Lexan or Plex. Spray painted on the back side of the face with the White painted as the last color over all the colors used. Masking would have to be a liquid masking such as Sign Strip sprayed on the face.

[Will Huff]

Don,
You are correct. The renault sign is embossed as well as the first sign in my first post. I've actually seen the first one in person though only briefly. I've seen different copies of sign #3, that was a small sign the dealers hung in the window. If you look closely you can see part of the M is rubbed off in the renault sign and you are correct it is clear. I'm not going to be doing any embossing, I'm just going to use that style.... but black instead of white

Signs 2 and 3 are flat face, and 4/5 are pan face. And the 2 white ones are clear "formed and embossed"... Thanks for the sign lingo.

I know those were definitely painted since the forming had to be done first and then the letters painted since the sign is white-backlit, and the sign is clear where the paint has rubbed off. Out of curiosity I wonder if the black signs were painted or silk screened, or a combination of both. And if they just did the black in plain old non-sign paint since it was opaque anyway. (much cheaper!)

I have a friend who collects these and he has a copy of sign #3, I will look at it and see if it started clear too or if it was made from the white acrylic...