Powermatic 719T dissapointment

[Keith Hankins]

Ok recently I had the need for quite a few 3/4" mortises for a bed project. They would be in 2 5/8" stock and I've done M&T just about every way possible. I decided I was finally after numerous years spring for a morticer. I'm an old Iron guy and found one but the drive to go get it would have been a long way and after adding the transportation in, decided to just go ahead and get a new Powermatic 719T during the big sale they were having a few months back 10% off. I got the mortiser and a complete set of chisels (woodcraft 10% off) so I'm good to go.

It was a big heavy machine. It took me and my neighbor's son (big guy) to get it upright on the table and set up and I put it on coasters. With tilt table for angled mortises I initial impressions were pretty good. I noticed however a few dings that while cosmetic was disappointing.

First the cast frame was not the cleanest. It was rough in a couple spots that with a touch of grinding would have been better but I know you are not going to get that in china.

The stops for lateral table movement and in/out movement are small and seemed cheap. The handles were plastic again cheap. I thought ok, I know its not make in US so I'd live with it. Put the chisels in and made a couple test cuts with the 3/4 Chisel and noticed something funny. The auger was slightly bigger that the chisel body. So as you cut your mortise you got a slight semicircle mark keeping the whole from being square. I thought ok, bad part so I took it back to woodcraft and they happily gave me a second. I get home better, but still another one slightly larger. The store is a good drive so I said screw it, I got out the table top oscilating sander and ground it down carefully till it was right. Come on man really! So test set everything is ready and this week end I start. Get through the 3rd mortise and all the sudden the arm will come down, but the head will not. I'm going what the heck. I get to checking and the way it's made with a large gear on a shaft, it was soon obvious that the key for the gear/shaft had sheared off. Now this is just cherry and its a new bit/chisel sharpened and honed before use with 3 test holes cut to verify everything. I was hot!

So I basically loose most of my Saturday breaking the dang thing down getting the gear out (not that easy) and look up the key part in my manual and it's a 5mmx5mmx12mm pin. Well guess what, you cannot find that easily. Luckily I found a 3/16" pin at lowes and cut it down to work it's not super tight, but I got it put back together and got going (i've got to call for a warantee replacement).

I'm through my third post and notice that my start point on my mortise (I drew each one on the post) was slightly below my pencil start line. Got the tape out and guess what, the stops were not holding and from the first to the last mortise cut the stop had moved 1/8" of an inch. Luckily it won't impact the bed but I had to tighten down the stops again as tight as I could (remember my flimsy part comment should have listened to my spidy sense). I redid the other posts so they all match. I finished the day pissed when I should have been impressed. So I'm going to come up with a second lock on the stops somehow to minimize that slide. Anyway, in the end, I learned dearly. Should have sprung for the gas went and got the Northfield in Wisconsin ! I've made some mistakes in my life but I have to say I've learned and seldom make the second twice.

[Kevin Presutti]

Keith,
Your experience with these mass produced, foreign made machines are the exact reason when I want something I search high and low to find OLD IRON. I will gladly spend the time fixing what needs fixing, painting, rust removal etc. Tooling is usually harder to find but the machine will almost alway be USA. I'm sorry to hear what you went thru, I would have called them up, had them come get it and refund my money, if I had to be a bulldog so be it. Spending good money, only to fix one thing after the other doesn't sit well with me. I hope if you keep the machine you get the bugs worked out.

Kevin

[Stephen Cherry]

I have a 719, non tilt, and here's what I did:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...w-Chisel-Gloat

[Phil Thien]

That sucks.

I'm accustomed to screwing around with many of my budget tools.

It is threads like this that has prevented me from purchasing any expensive stuff (well, that and a lack of $$$). I'd hate to pay the big bucks only to find I have the same sorts of problems!

[Gary Herrmann]

Hopefully, WC will take it back.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have a 719 and it has served me well for many years. I am well aware of how little I paid compaired to a commercial unit, and so was not expecting miracles. I did not buy a Mercedes, so I was not expecting Mercedes fit and finish.

What it does do well is mortices. Its paid for itself many times over and that is what I expect out of a machine. As morticers go it is a cheap machine.

I use Fische and Clico bits, and the auger is always slightly bigger than the chisel.

Larry

[Peter Quinn]

Wow, I've actually used that machine once or twice, as I recall it was decent as floor mortisers go, though the same shop also had a general floor mortiser and I preferred that for ease of adjustment. Sorry to hear the gold standard has slid. Just read Larry's post, I have to concur, thats pretty much a non industrial small shop model, I've used so much worse that it does pretty well from where I stand. Not sure I understand the "bit bigger than the chisel". They always have a bigger tip, they always go in from below, you can NEVER slide the chisel over the bit at installation. Of course the bit runs just ahead of the chisel if set properly, maybe 1/16"-1/8", its made to work that way, so its not a problem really. If the auger tip were small enough to fit up into the chisel, the machine is working WAY to hard and you will probably wind up cooking the chisel and breaking gears from pulling so hard. Its basically a drill press with a chisel behind it, not a chisel with a drill inside of it. Have you set one of these up before? I don't mean this as an attack, just a legitimate question given the facts I'm hearing.

[Mark Grotenhuis]

I went with a General International 75-075, primarily because I wanted a tilting head instead of a tilting table and because I wasn't terribly impressed with the Powermatic 719. The fit and finish of the General is poor just like the Powermatic. Nothing is ground smooth, however this primarily cosmetic. I also had the same problem with the depth adjusters loosening and moving. My adjusters are metal but you really have to torque them down to get them to stay put (I now use a wrench). I also had the table clamp replaced due to poor machining. Once I got those issues out of the way it has been very sturdy and preforms very well. I understand how frustrating it is to spend that much money on something and then have it not work properly. Woodcraft will probably take it back, but not without hesitation. They will probably want you to replace the broken part to see if that solves it before you return it. If you do keep it have Powermatic send you 2 or 3 of the replacement parts because more than likely it will happen again.

[Troy Turner]

Keith - That sucks! Call Woodcraft and ask them if they'll come and get it. If not, maybe PM can do something to make it right. Course, only thing I could see would be for them to come and get it and deliver you another one. I'm sure that was a chunk of change and there's no way I'd be screwin around with it that much.

[michael case]

Kieth, I certainly hope your going to insist on getting your money back. The Gold standard stuff is hog wash. I had a PM 66 it was junk too. I looked into their jointers and found complaints about dished tables. Needless to say a jointer with a dished table is useless. Powermatic's response was call evertything within spec. IMO Powermatic is selling junk and gliding on a once deserved reputation. If you want a hollow chisel mortiser maybe the Generral International model 75-075 M1 1" mortiser would do. Its in the same price range and General's overseas stuff has a decent reputation.

[Paul McGaha]

Keith,

As unhappy as you sound I hope they let you return it.

I bought a Powermatic 719A (non-tilting) hollow chisel mortiser new back about 2004. It's been bullet proof.

I agree with you about the set screws on the stops could be (maybe should be) more heavy duty than they are, but they will work so long as you get them tight. Or at least that's been the case with my machine.

I agree with Larry about buying quality bit/chisels (just like buy quality saw blades) but I still have some of the no name bit/chisels that came with the machine and they do actually work ok.

Hope it gets resolved to your satisfaction.

PHM

[glenn bradley]

When I was pondering a bench top mortiser, the General was the only one that seemed to have the format covered. All "makers" seem to have tools that they do better than other items in their line. Some of PM's tablesaws really shine while their drill presses get panned. Grizzly's bandsaws are very well liked while their lathes get little fan fare. With the dissatisfaction level you've got and the PM/Jet recent improvements in customer service, I too would look into a return. Even if you only got credit toward some future purchase, that would serve you better than feeling bad about the machine every time you used it. For many years I have had machines in many colors and most of them still make me smile every time I use them. It a good feeling.

[Keith Hankins]

Let me clarify a bit the load is normal, as with any mortise/chisel. The diameter of the auger is larger that the 3/4" bit. To clarify the smaller bits did not have that problem only the larger two. i was able to carefully work it down a bit to solve the issue without impacting the temper of the bit. The pressure on the downward pull with the handle is not that much and it worked fine till it just popped. IMO the key was way too small. Look at 5mm on a ruler and see just how small that is. The beef of the column motor and table are nice and the arm that applies downward pressure is good. Its just another case of skimping on a couple areas that just kills the machine. I have finished everything for now. Only thing left is mortises for the headboard (4) so now I know it's limitations I will be ok. I'm going to order a couple extra stop collars and double up on the left/right so it will stop the problem. It just tic's me off that I knew I should not have gone that route, but did it anyway and now must pay the price. It's all good in the end, but next machines will be the old ones. Had 4 success stories there. Like I said, I do make mistakes, but I learn. Thanks to all for the kind words and letting me vent!