Contributor
I have a split shop. Where the bigger machines are, it's a cyclone. But the basement like 'garage' shop space I use a shop vac with a small cyclone separator and exhaust outside.
If you can at all exhaust to the outside, do it.
And wear a good well fitting respirator when sanding.
Member
Why not use the HF dust collector? $149.00 plus whatever 4" flex pipe ya might need.
Bill
On the other hand, I still have five fingers.
[OP]
Member
Ok, this idea has crossed my mind. And, I do have the option to exhaust outside as well. Can I make use of the HF unit combined with venting outside somehow?? I don't know that much about how they are supposed to work.Originally Posted by Bill White
I read last night on another site that 6 inch pipe is supposed to carry larger particles and move air better than 4 inch. The author of that article neglected to mention what kind of motor power they had though. He just states to upsize to 6 inch and dust collection becomes better. All other things being equal, I would think simply increasing pipe size would actually decrease suction without a huge step up in power as well, but that's just speculation since I don't know.
Last edited by Duane Bledsoe; 10-07-2012 at 3:01 PM.
Contributor
Phil,
Excellent points here.
When I was still in my basement shop, I had a 1hp, DC system with a 3 micron bag filter with 4' of 4" diameter hose along with a Jet 1000 Air Cleaner which hung from the ceiling. I used my Vac w/ Hepa filter to do my sanding. I figured I was catching quite a bit from the DC and Vac although upon inspection of the filters in the A/C, I was very surprised to find completely full, wood colored filters. I would run the A/C during operations and for 1 hour afterwards. Money well spent.
Mac
Last edited by Mac McQuinn; 10-07-2012 at 8:39 PM.
Member
"And, I do have the option to exhaust outside as well?"
Sure. Just take off the bag unit (or just bypass it). Run the 6" outlet duct from the blower to a vent tube. Blow away.
Bill
On the other hand, I still have five fingers.
Contributor
My solution is low tech.
I have a Jet DC-1100, with the 30 micron bag ( Junk). I snake the portable hose into the shop, and the DC sits outside. There is also a horse blanket over the entire DC, kind of like a shower curtain. There is no dust in the air around the DC, but the floor has a very fine layer where the blanket drops it. Nothing is getting through that blanket.
Bottom line, for me was to just get the DC out of the shop. It took up too much space anyway.
I am looking at a bigger system though because the Jet cannot handle the 26" drum sander.
"The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)
[OP]
Member
Ah, so I don't even have to worry about how many microns the bags are?? Why doesn't everybody do this?? I know some work from a basement that is completely below ground but those who have above ground shops or basements that aren't completely below ground (me) could just vent through the wall and out.
Guest
For people that have conditioned (heated or cooled) air, placing the DC outside results in exhausting that conditioned air. With heated air it isn't that big a deal, but during the air conditioning season, the make-up air entering the house will probably be full of moisture.
Also, you have to be careful for carbon monoxide if you exhaust while the furnace is running. Otherwise the make-up air can come in via the chimney. Probably not an issue if you have a newer high-efficiency furnace, though.
Finally, I'm not fully on-board the "exhaust outside" movement. I think it is possible to get the air in the shop cleaner than the air outside if you have properly working filters and a decent air cleaner. Once you start exhausting outside, you need make-up air, which means you're drawing whatever air that is outside, inside. Depending on what is going on outside your shop, this may be a step backwards.
Not saying the exhaust outside idea doesn't have merit. It sure saves on filters. And you don't have to worry about pressure drop. But there are downsides, as well.
Member
Duane, it has to do with the fan performance. The less duct resistance you have to overcome, the more flow the the fan will produce. It is the flow at the machine or hood that does the work of collecting the dust. It will take a certain amount of pressure to generate this flow and get it through the duct, cyclone, fan, fan outlet duct, and filters. On the other hand, you can't have too big of a duct, or the air speed in the duct will be too low and material will fall out in the duct. With a 1.5HP fan, a 6" duct is probably as big as you want to go.
Phil makes good points about the exhaust outside vs. return to shop debate. There are pluses and minuses to both arguments. The best scenario seems to be to set up your system where you can do either depending on the time of the year, assuming you want to exhaust outside.
Mike
I now have to wear a respirator even when hand sanding due to a few years of hobbyist-level inadequate dust collection. I ran a 1HP Delta bagger with the factory bags. The real bummer is that his never heals. I am on medication and am like this for the rest of my life. How much dust collection can you afford now? Queue the eerie music . . .
"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".
– Samuel Butler
Member
I hear you loud and clear Glenn. This is what my pulmonologist said, "I'm going going to tell you to give up your favorite hobby, but I am going to tell you to spend whatever it takes to protect your lungs or find a new hobby. You have no reserve left to lose." Virtually every tool purchase I make now is based on the dust collection considerations first, everything else second. Wish I could go Neander, but there isn't enough oxygen for the muscles to push an edge for very long. I need to electric horses for muscle.
Contributor
Years ago I wouldnt have listened to these experiences as much as I do now. This is the type of health hazard that sneaks up on you, over time. I do like my hobby, and although I would prefer (and did) prioritize other equipment over dust collection, now I have a philosophy that its just part of the entry cost of the hobby.
As for venting outside - it depends (of course!). Some here are very comfortable that they have their indoor air quality to an acceptable level. I dont think this is simply by purchasing an off the shelf dust collector and plugging it in - its a combination of factors including what particular equipment they run and the type of dust generated from it. imo, a fairly involved topic to get an acceptable answer. Most people are satisfied with the level of air quality outdoors (even though perhaps sometimes they shouldnt be - its my opinion that this is a better solution - as a statistical aggregate - than what most people put together as an indoor DC solution). Meaning, it reduces some of the places things can go wrong (inadequate flow rates and inadequate filtering).
I recently got an overhead air filter. My 'opinion' would have been that this really isnt adequate to maintain the indoor air quality - but I just dont know. It will be hooked up soon so we will find out from a 'qualitative' perspective (since I dont really have any way to know quantitatively). The air particle counter data I saw suggested that one of the biggest factors to stirring up dust was just in sweeping the shop floor! (and that after they coated the shop floor with epoxy paint, the amount of dust generated when sweeping was dramatically lower). So just saying there are a number of factors here... and not all obvious.
You will get a LOT of opinion, 'facts', and debate on this topic. Some of it very heated discussion (and since there is very little standardized and verified published data - hard to know which 'facts' are really 'facts') (not to mention that over 80% of published scientific data cannot be reproduced!). The Bill Pentz site is a great resource, but even there its all based on context of the level of particles that cause health effects and the reality is that there just isnt any way to know (each individual is different).
Good luck! Some great knowledge and resources here - all of it valid - even if it contradicts. At the end of the day you are going to have to figure out a way to determine what level of DC is acceptable for YOU. Keep asking questions. Weigh various answers knowing that some will contradict.
Finally, use common sense! (wear respirators when sanding, take as much outside as you can, do SOMETHING for DC.....). If something is making a cloud of dust... its obviously unhealthy. This is a starting point at least.
Last edited by Carl Beckett; 10-08-2012 at 8:53 AM.
Member
One issue to consider with room air filters (and I have 2 in my shop) is that even with super-dooper filters installed they capture the dust from the air floating around the room, so you are already breathing it. The mission is to prevent it from ever floating around the room, and that means catching it at it's source.
One can never have too many planes and chisels... or so I'm learning!!
[OP]
Member
I've heard enough. So far I've been using my biggest dust generators such as routers and table saw outside and just using the shop for assembly and finishing, or maybe I might drill a hole or two inside but that's it. I think I'll stick with this. It will be cheaper and healthier it seems. My table saw is just a contractor saw so its light enough I can move it easily. It's a pain to set up to do a lot of things and I use a lot of my time on set up and tear down with each session but I don't want to develop problems related to dust. My wife harps on me enough for running saws without ear plugs.
i usually use a shop vac connected to the tools whenever I can when outside using them, but the table saw is one where I just have to let it fly. I might devise a way to control it if I think hard enough.
Last edited by Duane Bledsoe; 10-08-2012 at 10:33 PM.
Member
I want to learn mountain climbing but don't want to buy new ropes. I can get old ropes that probably have plenty of life left in them for a fraction of the cost of new ropes.
You can go cheap on DC and take your chances that your lungs will never develop any problems. Not only do we get to decide what level of risk we are willing to accept, we also get to live with the ramifications.
Measure twice, cut three times, start over. Repeat as necessary.
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