Lumber Rack & Engineer Questions

[Adrian Anguiano]

Im building a lumber rack in the next week or 2. I got an idea from a fine woodworking magazine of a guy that used 1/8" thick angle iron placed in a 1/8" kerf on the 4x4. The angle iron is then bolted onto the wood. and the 4x4's are bolted onto the wall studs. Heres a tiny picture for an example.

My question is how long should i make the rails? That is the length past the 4x4 (usable space)? If I had one of every stud for 8ft. How much weight do you think it would take?

I have my walls down right now, and have a question for you engineers too. My studs that I will attach these 4x4's to are single 2x4 studs. While I have the walls down I was planning on beefing up some of the studs. Is it better to make all these studs double( aka nailing an extra 2x4 to the existing one), or is it better to keep them single except for 2 studs, and make them 4 2x4's wide? Any difference in support?


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[Eric DeSilva]

The amount the arms will support will depend upon the size of the angle iron (actually steel) you use--angle comes in lots of sizes, including 1/2", 1", 1.5", 2" etc. If he is supporting it in part using a kerf in a 4x4, I'm guessing he used 1.5" or 2" angle. That would hold a considerable amount.

Since the design is cantilevered, the forces on the wall studs are going to be acting to pull the 4x4 off the wall--away from the wall. I would think you would get better mileage by beefing up how the 2x4 is attached to the top plate rather than by adding more 2x4s to the wall. Is there a reason why the design has to be cantilevered? It will make it easier, obviously, to pull pieces out, but plenty of hardwood places I go use bins that require pulling the lumber out the long way. If you built a frame, then the attachment to the 2x4s just prevents the structure from moving and requires virtually no structural integrity.

[Adrian Anguiano]

The amount the arms will support will depend upon the size of the angle iron (actually steel) you use--angle comes in lots of sizes, including 1/2", 1", 1.5", 2" etc. If he is supporting it in part using a kerf in a 4x4, I'm guessing he used 1.5" or 2" angle. That would hold a considerable amount.

I was planning on using 1.5" Angle Iron 1/8" Thick.

Since the design is cantilevered, the forces on the wall studs are going to be acting to pull the 4x4 off the wall--away from the wall. I would think you would get better mileage by beefing up how the 2x4 is attached to the top plate rather than by adding more 2x4s to the wall. Is there a reason why the design has to be cantilevered? It will make it easier, obviously, to pull pieces out, but plenty of hardwood places I go use bins that require pulling the lumber out the long way. If you built a frame, then the attachment to the 2x4s just prevents the structure from moving and requires virtually no structural integrity.

Not sure I understand what you're depicting. Can you make a simple diagram?? I was going to make the racks only start at 4ft high to the top of my 8ft ceiling. That way I could have a jointer, miter saw, or plywood underneath.

As far as the angle iron which is better. Galvanized Iron, or non galvanized that I spray paint myself?

[Eric DeSilva]

Your rack design has "arms" that come out roughly perpendicular to the wall. Those arms aren't supported on the other (non-wall) end, which means they cantilever off the wall. What I was suggesting is a design where, instead of unsupported arms coming off the wall, you have a series of 4x4s in the room to which the end of the arm attaches--thus supporting the arm on both ends. What that means is that all of the weight is directed straight down on the 4x4s, instead of acting as a lever trying to pull the 4x4 off the wall. I can't do a diagram here, but think of your design as a backwards, upside down "L"--I'm talking about building an "H" instead. You wouldn't need one for every stud--if you were building it using "H"s, you could probably build one every 4'--just three of them for an 8' span.

The downside to an "H" design is that you can't pull a board out of the rack from the side--you'd have to pull it out of the rack from the end. But it would be easier to build, stronger, and less likely to pull the studs out of your wall. Then again, I tend to overengineer things.

[Adrian Anguiano]

Ahh gotya... sounds like the only problem with that is I couldnt have something underneath the lumber rack like a miter saw station

[Greg Portland]

Im building a lumber rack in the next week or 2. I got an idea from a fine woodworking magazine of a guy that used 1/8" thick angle iron placed in a 1/8" kerf on the 4x4. The angle iron is then bolted onto the wood. and the 4x4's are bolted onto the wall studs. Heres a tiny picture for an example.

My question is how long should i make the rails? That is the length past the 4x4 (usable space)? If I had one of every stud for 8ft. How much weight do you think it would take?

I have my walls down right now, and have a question for you engineers too. My studs that I will attach these 4x4's to are single 2x4 studs. While I have the walls down I was planning on beefing up some of the studs. Is it better to make all these studs double( aka nailing an extra 2x4 to the existing one), or is it better to keep them single except for 2 studs, and make them 4 2x4's wide? Any difference in support?


011194018_md.jpg

It's hard to see the attachment mechanism from the (small) picture. A lot of folks have had success using 3/4" pipe as their arms instead of angle iron. Simply drill the hole into the 4x4 at a slight angle (to account for weight loading / sag) for the pipe. I would not go past 18" of protrusion; my metal rack uses a combination of 12" and 18" arms. One other tip is to have the 4x4 touch the floor; that puts most of the weight onto the floor and NOT the studs. My posts are lagged into single studs using this method.

[Van Huskey]

Can you tie into the joist above? If so you could negate most of the pulling force on the studs.

[Alan Bienlein]

I just built me a lumber rack back in march out of 2 x 4's and 3/4" conduit. I drilled the holes for the conduit at a 5 degree upward angle to a depth of 3". I did a test to find out how strong it was and one length of 3/4" emt cut 24" long sticking in the 5 degree hole 3" deep would support a 5 gallon bucket on the end of the pipe with an 80 lb bag of sacrete in it.

I decided that 20" was the optimum length for the width board I was going to store on it.
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[Adrian Anguiano]

Can you tie into the joist above? If so you could negate most of the pulling force on the studs.

I could attach a 4x4 horizontally at the top of the wall, and screw it up to the joists, and into the wall's top plate. That will encompass both of your suggestions. But attaching the verticle 4x4 to that 4x4.... hmmm... Toenailed Lagbolts? screws?

[Adrian Anguiano]

I just built me a lumber rack back in march out of 2 x 4's and 3/4" conduit. I drilled the holes for the conduit at a 5 degree upward angle to a depth of 3". I did a test to find out how strong it was and one length of 3/4" emt cut 24" long sticking in the 5 degree hole 3" deep would support a 5 gallon bucket on the end of the pipe with an 80 lb bag of sacrete in it.

I decided that 20" was the optimum length for the width board I was going to store on it.

Im shocked you used EMT.. i was under the impression that stuff wasnt strong at all.

And using pipe just sounds way too expensive.

[John TenEyck]

Definitely tie your vertical supports to the floor joists. Bolts or lag bolts will work fine; 5/16" diameter is more than enough. The only attachment you need at the bottom is to keep the vertical from shifting side to side, not for structural reasons. If you can find some old metal bed frames or old 3/4" or 1" diameter black iron or galvanized pipe you will have all your horizontal supports for free or nearly free. Or you could just use 2 x 4's, which is how I made my cantileverd racks. The load capacity is dependent upon the cross sectional area of the arms x their length. I have some that are about 18" long, spaced about 2' apart. Those racks are about 8 feet long, meaning there are 4 supports, and they probably have 300 lbs on each shelf. I would think 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" x 1/8" angle iron or 3/4" black iron pipe would give you similar load capacity, probably even more.

John

[Alan Bienlein]

Im shocked you used EMT.. i was under the impression that stuff wasnt strong at all.

And using pipe just sounds way too expensive.

Thats why I did a mockup of what I wanted to build to test it.

I guess I should also note that my vertical spacing between pipes is 5". The thickness of the conduit only eats up the space for about one 4/4 thick board.

[Adrian Anguiano]

If you can find some old 3/4" or 1" diameter black iron or galvanized pipe you will have all your horizontal supports for free or nearly free. Or you could just use 2 x 4's, which is how I made my cantileverd racks.

My whole reason for this design was because its cheaper than going on a hunt for pipe, and thinner than using wood, so I dont lose much carrying space due to the height of the brackets. Ill only lose 1.5" with angle iron.

[Van Huskey]

I could attach a 4x4 horizontally at the top of the wall, and screw it up to the joists, and into the wall's top plate. That will encompass both of your suggestions. But attaching the verticle 4x4 to that 4x4.... hmmm... Toenailed Lagbolts? screws?

In that case I would just use a 2x4 but I would butt it up to the 4x4s and not even attach it, they will be held in place by the studs and the added 2x4 just keeps them from pulling away from the wall at the top.

[Bruce Page]

I don’t have the space to keep a lot of excess wood on hand so I built this small lumber rack to accommodate my needs. It consists of 1X4’s lag bolted through the sheet rock into the 2X4 studs. The heavy duty brackets are lag bolted through the 1X4 into the studs. The lumber in the pic is 95% white oak & cherry so it is quite heavy. I did show my design to a civil engineer friend before building and he didn’t have any concerns about the load.