Outfoxed by my Kreg Jig

[John Stevens]

I just bought a Kreg 2000 and tried it out for the first time this weekend. The project was really simple--a square, four-sided stand, about 23" x 28", but only 7" high on the long sides and 8" high on the short sides. I wanted the pocket holes on the inside, but that prevented me from using my clamping squares to set the sides at 90 degrees during assembly--the sides were so narrow that I couldn't find a way to attach the squares without blocking the pocket holes. And the difference in height between the adjacent sides also created some challenges when I tried to think of alternative ways of squaring and clamping the parts. My clamping strategy failed, and the parts shifted when I drove the screws.

Perhaps the narrowness of the sides, their length, and the need to locate the pocket holes on the inside all combined to make this particular project poorly suited for pocket holes? I dunno. Now that I've thought about it some more, I think I could have held the parts in place, and kept them at 90 degrees, by making one or more specialized jigs. But the time and materials required to do so would not have been worth it, given the alternatives.

For example, biscuit joints would have been faster and easier to assemble accurately. Floating tenon joints made on my router jig may have taken a little longer, but it would have been close. They would definitely have been easier to assemble accurately. And if I'd been willing to locate the holes on the outside of the piece, it would have been much faster and easier to simply drive some 2" coarse-threaded screws into the ends, even taking into account the need to counterbore and plug the holes. All because of the difficulty of clamping the pieces when using pocket holes.

Before I bought the Kreg jig, I searched a lot of forums to find peoples' opinions, and they were all positive. I've rarely seen any product that seems to have earned such satisfaction among its customers. So what am I missing? Thanks in advance for your comments and advice.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

In this case, I would have used the clamp that came with my kit. It fits into a pocket hole on one end and has a pad on the other side. What you do is drill two pocket holes, use one to clamp and the other to screw. You release the clamp and can decide to put a screw in the hole for the clamp or leave it be. With my clamp I have not had a problem with the peices moving.

I realize that this picture shows the holes on the outside, but the clamp has enough reach to clamp on the inside as well.

[Lynn Kasdorf]

I've always had good luck with the kreg system.

One thing I would say is that your inside alignment square thingies probably won't accomplish much with a pocket hole joint. It is a question of how squarely the wood is cut that determines how square it all comes out.

It is a good idea to provide some mechanism to keep the joint from shifting as the screws dive home. In the case of face frame joinery for example, Kreg provide that wide jaw vice grip. In other situations (like joining a stretcher to a leg), I'd consider a jig that keeps the joint in alignment as the screws tighten.

You could clamp the whole affair together and get it perfect before driving the screws, but this almost defeats the purpose of pocket hole joinery, as it is works as its own clamp.

If the pocket holes are drilled right, there should not be much lateral force as the screws drive home, but a little backing jig would make it foolproof.

[JayStPeter]

I've combined pocket holes and biscuits to keep things from shifting. It worked OK, but the biscuits must be tight and the holes close to the biscuits.

Jay

[Mike Vermeil]

I think you'll find the pocket hole system to be well worth the investment once you've learned the few techniques necessary for good joints. I use pocket holes on almost 100% of the face frames I make, and am using them more and more often on cabinet carcass construction.

However, some type of holding or clamping device, jig, etc. must be used when assembling with pocket screws. The force applied by the screws coming in to the workpiece at a slight angle will almost always move one or both of the pieces being joined. Thus far, I have always been able to devise a simple clamping arangement.

[John Stevens]

Just a quick follow up to my own thread, in case anyone else has the same problems. I tried drilling all the way through the pilot holes, and that completely solved the problem. With a big piece of wood clamped to the table to keep the workpieces from sliding around, all that was needed was firm hand pressure to keep the pieces from shifting while drilling.

[Corey Hallagan]

As Jeff says, the Kreg clamp should be the answer to your problem. It squares the edge while you put screw in or two, move to the other end clamp it up an screw in the rest.


Corey

[Bruce Overholt]

Probably one of the best way is to get a couple of those plastic 90 degree support that you clamp on the inside of corners. http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product...rings_id=10113

One other issue to be careful of is when you want to leave a 1/4" reveal between apron and legs. In this case, Kreg reccomends making a Jig.

Bruce

[John Stevens]

Thanks to all who responded. This forum is a great source of info. Just a few follow-up comments.

1. With regard to the clamp that Jeff and Corey mentioned, I actually own it...assumed it would not reach the pilot holes in this case, or would not align the pieces properly, because the clamp would have to be fastened at a pretty bad angle, given that the holes were on the inside of the piece. I'll have to check that out.

2. With regard to the 90-degree supports Bruce mentioned, they're great (I have aluminum versions by Jeavons--they're in the Lee Valley catalog) but I couldn't use them in this situation because the holes were on the inside, and the pieces were just narrow enough that there was no way to position them so they didn't block the pilot holes.

3. I've since done some more fooling around with the Kreg jig, and I think that my initial impressions of the problem were correct--

(a) this unusual project was uniquely unsuited for the Kreg jig--a really odd and probably rare situation.

(b) the Kreg jig can be a great time saver, but if the Kreg clamps can't be used, the time savings is reduced or lost because of the need to either (i) drill through the pilot holes; (ii) use biscuits or splines to keep the pieces from shifting; or (iii) make a specialized clamping jig or devise an elaborate clamping strategy. However, even in situations when it takes more time to use pocket holes, the strength and alignment that can be gained might be worth it.

I'm happy to say I've joined the ranks of satisfied Kreg jig owners, and I'm looking forward to using it on several shop projects this week and weekend. Thanks again to all who gave their time to offer solutions!

[Corey Hallagan]

John, having trouble envisioning your particular project there. It sounds like you are building a basic rectangled box. So if joining two sides of the box together and you put your first holes 1 inch in from the edge of either end and then space remaining holes. The Kreg right angle clamp with your edge hanging over the assembly table should square up the two pieces and hold it together for screwing together. On on each end would be best. The clamp face is adjustable and it should be fairly easy to insert the one end into the pocket hole and then square up the face pad of the clamp to the workpiece and make a good 90. Once you drive the screws it draws the two pieces together very tight. I have a couple of Kreg videos and they use the Kreg to assemble every joint from a large router table, bathroom vainity to a coffee table. Glue and kreg clamps are all you should need. The only thing is that in tight spaces a right angle drill may be necessary and is the reason I bought a cordless right angle drill to go with the rest of my cordless gear. Hope this helps a bit!

Corey

[Bruce Overholt]

John, Sure you can use that type of clamping guide for inside pocket holes... First, clamp the receiving pieces outside/face, to the inside of the clamping guide, then lay piece with the pocket holes 90 degrees to the receiving piece. The angles of the pocket should allow you enough of an angle to clear your drill/driver chuck provided you use the longer driving bit. I've done this several times.
The reverse is also true if you were to have pocket holes on the outside of the 90 degree angle on a work piece. Then, you would place the clamping guide on the inside of the 90 degree angle.

Bruce