Rikon 10-345 Bandsaw

[Paul Johnstone]

That's not true at all. It just has to be factual.

Nope, if you post something critical of an advertiser, the mods will either question your credibility, delete the post, accuse you of not giving the advertiser a chance to "make it right", etc..
People have been banned from this board for criticizing an advertiser.
The mods will decide they are not credible and then that's it.
In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if this post is deleted.

[Phil Thien]

I'm not even allowed to post a link to the comparison on the other board where someone owned both of them.

SMC doesn't allow links to other woodworking forums, regardless of the content.

[Joe Angrisani]

You can only do a side by side comparison if Grizzly wins.
They are a paying advertiser on this board, it is not tolerated to post something negative about them.....

Please post links to two or three Sawmill Creek threads where this occurred. I haven't seen it and I have my doubts, but then again I don't haunt every thread. I'd like to see what I've missed.

[Paul Johnstone]

SMC doesn't allow links to other woodworking forums, regardless of the content.

Yes, that's what I meant.. I can't link a review in another forum because links are not allowed.
Protecting the advertisers was a seperate point.

[Paul Johnstone]

Please post links to two or three Sawmill Creek threads where this occurred. I haven't seen it and I have my doubts, but then again I don't haunt every thread. I'd like to see what I've missed.

Those threads get moved to a different forum where the public can not see them. An admin explained that this is techinically not deleting them.

And in all fairness, it's just not Grizzly. There's 3 vendors I know of that have been protected by the admins in this manner.

Look, the owner of this site can certainly run this site however he wants to. This is not a rant.. I just think readers of this forum should be informed that the opinions/reviews of tools are edited to some degree. This is a great place to get WWing advice. It's not a good place to research tools, and that's fine.

[Joseph Tarantino]

Yes, that's what I meant.. I can't link a review in another forum because links are not allowed.
Protecting the advertisers was a seperate point.

so are you saying that links like this aren't allowed:

http://www.ridgid.com/tools/power-tool-warranty

[Ken Fitzgerald]

You can only do a side by side comparison if Grizzly wins.
They are a paying advertiser on this board, it is not tolerated to post something negative about them.
People in the past have been treated harshly for doing as such. Not worth the trouble..
I'm not even allowed to post a link to the comparison on the other board where someone owned both of them.

This is not a complaint, just the way this board is run.. It's a nice message board for everything except getting a balanced opinion on a product that is advertised here.

Paul,

Yes you cannot link to another forum. Those are the rules you agreed to abide when you joined.

But, whether some company advertises here has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you can post a negative review about one of their products.

Taken from Keith's Decenber 20, 2010 announcement:


Before You Rant Read This December 20th, 2010

"It is the intent of SMC to permit the airing of concerns regarding the suitability of a particular product, or the quality or sufficiency of customer service provided by a vendor in any particular instance provided there is not a breach of contract component involved.

However, these threads often deteriorate into a "piling on" and develop a very negative tone. That doesn't assist other viewers in assessing the overall advisability of whether to buy this particular product, nor to assess the overall customer service provided by that manufacturer/vendor.

In order to be fair to the many vendors that provide woodworking products, the following policies will be in force:
The original poster must have first contacted the manufacturer/vendor and have attempted a solution PRIOR to posting the thread.
The original poster should provide factual details of the problem, and details of efforts that have been made with the manufacturer/vendor to rectify the problem.
Subsequent posts must be limited to suggestions to the original poster to assist in rectifying the problem - not to pile on because you had similar problems.

SMC is a woodworking forum. The intended purpose is to provide a community in which useful information may be shared among the members. Threads that do not achieve that purpose will be locked, or removed if necessary." SawMill Creek is not a Court of Law and we are not in a position to judge a breach of contract case here, therefore SawMill Creek will not become a stage or a courtroom for a legal dispute between two or more parties, it just isn't our mission."

The staff here is only trying to be fair to both buyer and manufacturers.

As far as persons being mistreated, people who cannot comply with the rules to which they agreed when they joined have had their posting privileges terminated. I don't look at that as mistreatment but strictly holding them responsible to the standards they agreed to abide when they joined.

[Jacob Reverb]

I bought a 10-345 about 7 years ago or so for $1500. At $1000 seven years later, that's a real bargain.

I really like mine. However, if given the choice again, I would get the wood-or-metalworking version (Model 10-370) for a few bucks more, since I also do metalworking.

[Keith Outten]

Nope, if you post something critical of an advertiser, the mods will either question your credibility, delete the post, accuse you of not giving the advertiser a chance to "make it right", etc..
People have been banned from this board for criticizing an advertiser.
The mods will decide they are not credible and then that's it.
In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if this post is deleted.

Paul,

You obviously have failed to read any of the rules you agree to when you joined this community. Besides our Terms of Service (TOS) we have a Frequently Asked Question (FAQ) thread that provides more detailed information concerning our TOS. Let me help you out by sharing with you an excerpt from our FAQ that explains why we don't allow links to other forums.

Q8. Why can't we link to other Forums here at SawMill Creek?

A8. Links to other Forums are prohibited, the primary reason is content. The behavior that is tolerated at other sites will vary from mild to raunchy and often adult topics are discussed. Many of our Members are very young, and there are those who prefer not to experience flaming and other derogatory comments frequently found at other web sites. Forums are constantly changing and the content of what starts out as an informative thread can quickly change to something less than acceptable to some people. It is imperative that parents who have young children that are Members here feel their young ones are not being subjected to material that is adult in nature. Our Community is open to all woodworkers, young and old, male and female and this is why we are so stringent in our efforts to maintain a friendly and civilized atmosphere here at The Creek.

Most of the 66,132 registered Members here enjoy the way we manage this site and they know that we will not tolerate behavior that is anything less than friendly and respectful towards Members of this Community and the companies we patronize. You have stated yourself that we have not allowed various posts and threads to remain in public view because they criticized Grizzly and other companies. The whole truth is that some of the information provided was not true, half true or unfounded speculation that is often shared by people who don't even own the machine being discussed. Last but not least are those who try to pass on their opinions as if they were facts in an effort to conceal their personal dislike for a particular company.

There is another rule here that prohibits anyone from publicly attacking a member of our Staff. If you have a complaint you should use our Private Messaging service to address the issue privately. Our Moderators donate their time here and they don't deserve to be treated harshly or accused of wrongdoing when they are enforcing the rules that everyone agreed to when they registered.

James Hicks, I will clean up this thread and remove the posts that are off topic in a few days and I apologize for the interruption.
.

[Dick Mahany]

Keith, Mr. Admin,

Thanks for enforcing civility. This is a class act.

[Curt Harms]

Yes, that's what I meant.. I can't link a review in another forum because links are not allowed.
Protecting the advertisers was a seperate point.

Actually I think you can mention another forum, you just can't make it a hot link. Another instance is Ebay. You cannot post a "click here to go to my posting". You can however post "see Ebay item #12345678" which is not clickable but anyone can copy the # then go to Ebay and search. I've disagreed with a decision or two but for the most part I think SMC is run fairly.

[James Hicks]

Thanks for your review. I should have been clearer with my original post. I was comparing the Rikon 10-345 @ 999.99 to the Grizzly 514X2 @ 1450.00. I own three Grizzly machines and have received excellent service from them. I would buy the Grizzly based on that if it had a little lower price. I have to make up my mind soon, Woodcraft's sales ends 11/21.

[Paul Johnstone]

Keith and Ken,

I'm not complaining about anything.
I am just saying what has happened in the past.
1. Links to other sites have been deleted (True)
2. Posts which criticized products of advertisers have been removed so they can not be seen by the public (true).
Keith, you even said that this forum protects its advertisers (True)

Now my opinion is that this action makes this forum not very useful when comparing brands.
But I have said nothing untrue, and yes, I did read the terms of this board. Geez.
Someone on another board was banned for criticizing an advertiser on here (True) Maybe there was a good reason for it, but please let's not pretend that you can get impartial information here.

I realize all this, and I was not criticizing anything.. If this really bothered me, I would leave the forum
I don't see why you guys have to be so defensive.. you don't have to justify why you do what you do here.
Why get so upset and accuse me of not reading terms of service. I am repeating incidents that have happened in the past, that's all. I think it's fair to tell people that posts that criticize advertisers are removed from here, and thus they may get a rosier picture than reality.

[James Hicks]

Thanks Matt. That was good information. The Rikon is looking very good.