Heating my shop...Infrared

[Kevin Guarnotta]

Hi guys,

I am finally going to add some heat to my shop-as I plan putting some more time out there this winter. This is what I went through in my thought process...My shop is a 3-car garage. approx 20' x 30', with about 8' to 9' ceilings. It is concrete, and not insulated (yet). I am in Boston, and it is starting to get cold.

Wood Stove- I've always got plenty of scrap from different jobs...but too long to get heat out of a unit, sometimes I may only go out to the shop for an hour, I don't want to have to spend time getting a woodstove going. Also the space requirements, my shop isn't huge. So that is off my list.

Propane heater - I liked this idea, put a small tank behind my shop, and hang a propane heater from the ceiling. This requires a bit of work to install. Then I started reading about moisture issues with propane heaters. I also was a bit worried about sawdust and a flame. My plumber is also telling me that it would be pretty expensive to operate.

Infrared electric heater - these sound great in theory. they are silent, pretty inexpensive to operate. They come as long bars. The way my shop is set up, I could install these where they would be very unobtrusive. They are pretty affordable. I have a three bay garage, approx 30' x 20' I think I could put one of these for each bay. They can be controlled by a digital programmable thermostat. I talked to one manuf, he recommends keeping them running all the time. Just set it low at night, he said they run more efficiently and make the space more comfortable if operated that way. Here is one I am looking at - http://radiantsystemsinc.com/heater-...es/pricing.php The thing is I have never used a heater like this, and don't really know how well they work. I read a couple reviews of folks thinking they are great. What do you guys think?

Shop heater - last option is something like this - http://www.air-n-water.com/product/B...ml#description or this http://www.amazon.com/Dimplex-DGWH40...d_sim_sbs_hi_2 . I saw this recommended on another thread. I think these are louder (which seems to be the number one complaint about them). This is probably the most affordable option. It just seems like the heat would be really concentrated with one of these. The IR heater seems like it would spread the heat out better.

Your thoughts?

side note/question - when I research stuff on the forum, sometimes I see threads that are a couple years old. That is why I start a new one-I figure the old one is too old, and it makes more sense to start a new one, is that the right thing to do?

thanks...

[ray hampton]

[QUOTE=Kevin Guarnotta;2001981]Hi guys,



- these sound great in theory. they are silent, pretty inexpensive to operate. They come as long bars. The way my shop is set up, I could install these where they would be very unobtrusive. They are pretty affordable. I have a three bay garage, approx 30' x 20' I think I could put one of these for each bay. They can be controlled by a digital programmable thermostat. I talked to one manuf, he recommends keeping them running all the time. Just set it low at night, he said they run more efficiently and make the space more comfortable if operated that way. Here is one I am looking at - http://radiantsystemsinc.com/heater-...es/pricing.php The thing is I have never used a heater like this, and don't really know how well they work. I read a couple reviews of folks thinking they are great. What do you guys think?

Your thoughts?
Infrared electric heater

I got a question for you about the infrared heater, DO THEY HEAT THE AIR or do they heat the bodies in front of the heater

[Kevin Guarnotta]

The manuf. rep told me they heat the objects in front of the heater. That is one reason why he said to keep them running at night - at alow temp like 50 degrees. That way the floor and walls that the heater is pointed at will be warm, and will give off heat. That is how I understand it.

[Brian Krause]

Your last option, the Dimplex DGWH4031 heater is what I installed in my 24 x 24' 2 car garage shop. It works pretty well as a "short notice" heater. I can turn it on an hour before going in the shop on a cold day, and the shop will warm up about 5-10 degrees or so. My shop is very well insulated however, so a little extra heat seems to go a long way. Also, the dust collector can heat the room even more quickly than the heater!

[Don Jarvie]

Looking at your options I recommend an electric heater. They are very efficient and will heat the area quite well. I'm in the shop around 12 hours a week and haven't notice a huge change in my electric bill.

Looking at the models you list it looks like they may be a bit undersized. If the shop is well insulated it may handle it , if not the heater has to cycle more to keep the heat at the chosen level. I can go from 40 to 55 in about 30 to 40 minutes so it works well for me.

However, if your shop isn't insulated well no matter the heat source it will cost you more to keep it warm.

[Stephen Cherry]

I've got a 220v portable electic that I bought from grainger many moons ago, and it's perfectly fine for bringing a 2 car garage up to a reasonable temp.

By the way, there is no effeciency gain to running a heater when you are not in there. Basically, the heat flow out is proportional to temperature difference from inside to outside. SO, the colder it usually is, the lower the energy use.

[Dave Parkis]

I also have a 20 x 30 shop (garage) with 10' ceilings. I put 10" of insulation in the ceiling and 3 1/2" in the walls. I use 2 of the little oscillating electric heaters that I picked up at HD a couple of years ago and they easily keep my shop about 55-60 degrees. I usually have to turn them down (or off) when I start running machines because it gets too warm. I'm in Albany, NY so I think the climate should be similar. Its amazing how well the insulation works. In the summer, I actually have to run a window mounted A/C unit.

[Doug W Swanson]

I have the Comfort Cove heaters in my garage and I LOVE them! I was going to install a natural gas furnace but decided to go electric instead. My garage is 24'x28' detached, insulated and sheet-rocked. I've got (6) 4' heaters in my garage. With the exception of the wall with the overhead door, there are 2 heaters mounted on each wall. They are controlled by a single programmable thermostat.
Normally I have the heat set to 48 degrees but when I'm going to be working in the garage I will bump it up to 55 or 60. Within 30 minutes it is a real comfortable work environment.

I also installed one heater in a basement bedroom that needed just a little extra heat when we have company. I plan on ordering a couple more when we finish off a family room in our basement.

Overall, I love the Comfort Cove heaters. They are quiet, out of the way and seem to be pretty efficient.

[Joseph Tarantino]

Hi guys,

I am finally going to add some heat to my shop-as I plan putting some more time out there this winter. This is what I went through in my thought process...My shop is a 3-car garage. approx 20' x 30', with about 8' to 9' ceilings. It is concrete, and not insulated (yet). I am in Boston, and it is starting to get cold.

Wood Stove- I've always got plenty of scrap from different jobs...but too long to get heat out of a unit, sometimes I may only go out to the shop for an hour, I don't want to have to spend time getting a woodstove going. Also the space requirements, my shop isn't huge. So that is off my list.

Propane heater - I liked this idea, put a small tank behind my shop, and hang a propane heater from the ceiling. This requires a bit of work to install. Then I started reading about moisture issues with propane heaters. I also was a bit worried about sawdust and a flame. My plumber is also telling me that it would be pretty expensive to operate.

while i don't recommend this for everyone, especially if you have a well insulated space with minimal air infiltration. in my 240 sq' uninsulated 1920s vintage garage, i use a tank top propane heater with a 20" box fan hung from an adjacent wall about 18" above the heater blowing the heat into the shop. kind of like a ghetto forced hot air system. due to the amount of air infiltration, moisture accumulation is not a problem. after 1 hr on high (double infrared tank top unit), it's warm enough to work in a sweater and thick sole shoes. as for fire hazard, nothing has happened in the past three years. regarding expense, it's a function of your propane cost and the amount of shop time. as i noted, this isn't for everyone, but it can work in the right circumstances. just passing along first hand info on one of options noted by the OP.

Infrared electric heater - these sound great in theory. they are silent, pretty inexpensive to operate. They come as long bars. The way my shop is set up, I could install these where they would be very unobtrusive. They are pretty affordable. I have a three bay garage, approx 30' x 20' I think I could put one of these for each bay. They can be controlled by a digital programmable thermostat. I talked to one manuf, he recommends keeping them running all the time. Just set it low at night, he said they run more efficiently and make the space more comfortable if operated that way. Here is one I am looking at - http://radiantsystemsinc.com/heater-...es/pricing.php The thing is I have never used a heater like this, and don't really know how well they work. I read a couple reviews of folks thinking they are great. What do you guys think?

Shop heater - last option is something like this - http://www.air-n-water.com/product/B...ml#description or this http://www.amazon.com/Dimplex-DGWH40...d_sim_sbs_hi_2 . I saw this recommended on another thread. I think these are louder (which seems to be the number one complaint about them). This is probably the most affordable option. It just seems like the heat would be really concentrated with one of these. The IR heater seems like it would spread the heat out better.

Your thoughts?

side note/question - when I research stuff on the forum, sometimes I see threads that are a couple years old. That is why I start a new one-I figure the old one is too old, and it makes more sense to start a new one, is that the right thing to do?

thanks...

two things you didn't mention are a hot dawg:

http://www.modinehvac.com/v2portal/p...vacResidential

and a variant on the hot dawg:

http://www.ultimategarageheater.com/...ater/index.php

[Jim Neeley]

If you burn propane, natural gas or kerosene (or anything else) the products are carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and water vapor. If you do not vent it outside or have enough air leakage in your shop you will have condensation / rusting problems due to the high humidity and condensation on cold tools.

As for the infrared, they're a really neat retro solution. Their mission is to warm the objects (people) not the air, and the part of the person facing the heater. The down side is the side of the body not facing the heater receives little heat. Their advantage is they provide a lot of body-warming for relatively little energy.

An electric heater is inexpensive solution and is a good solution for occasional use. The 4,000 watt (13,000 BTU) heaters will do a pretty good job of warming the room but their cost/hour is pretty high (~$6/week for 12 hours use/week, based on 12.5 cents per kilowatt-hour). Given their low purchase price and the ability to warm the whole shop, this can be attractive. The down side is if you are applying a slow-drying finish while it's cold and need to keep it warm for a 24 hour period it will use ~$12.00 in electricity. Again not the end of the world for most of us who might do such a thing once a month or less. The electric cost can be high if it's cold outside and you leave it on for extended periods. I once forgot and left it on in my old 12'x16' insulated gambrell roof shed, not realizing it until I received my electric bill, which was about $120 high. I didn't make that mistake again.

If you want to keep the shop warm, the best solution is a gas unit heater (like the How Dawg or others) as the fuel costs are low. Here in Anchorage, at least, used ones show up on Craigs List periodically. They are old an may not be as efficient as the new ones but are still *much* cheaper to run. I have a 4-car garage with a unit heater and keep it at 65F year round. The additional fuel cost is only a handfull of dollars a month.

Depends on what you want to achieve and how much $$$ you want to spend.

Jist the opinion of one guy in Alaska.. YMMV.

Jim

[Troy Turner]

Kevin -

I've got one of these http://www.heater-store.com/garage_h..._1359_prd1.htm I'll get the exact model number and BTUs cause I didn't pay that much. If I had, I wouldn't be here typing this right now

I have a 20 x 14 pole barn. Only insulation I have is that reflective bubble wrap. It has a concrete floor.

Believe it or not, it does get pretty cold down here (for a few days ) or at least cold enough for me to turn it on. Last winter we were in the 20s for a couple of weeks. I could turn it on when I went out there in the morning and a couple hours later, I had to turn it on low because it will put out some heat. If I leave it running at night, it keeps the temp at a managable level with a coat. But as I start moving around, I end up taking the coat off.

I looked at the infrared, but knew I wasn't out there everyday and I wanted something to at least knock the chill out when I did walk out there. This far exceeded what I expected it to do.

[Kevin Guarnotta]

I understand that the gas heaters are low cost to run, unfortunately my garage is not attached to my house, and to run a gas line out there would be pretty expensive (probably a few thousand) and would take a long time to get that money back in savings on my heating bill. The only reason I thought propane, is because I could get a propane tank for outside my garage. But I don't like the condensation issues...

This is another reason why I am looking into the electric heat options. Sounds like Doug is happy with his Comfort Cove IR heaters. I don't think I'll be in my shop 40 hours a week, but maybe if I'm lucky I will if I'm that lucky then I'll put the money into bringing gas out to the shop, and getting a gas heater.

[Roy Turbett]

I understand that the gas heaters are low cost to run, unfortunately my garage is not attached to my house, and to run a gas line out there would be pretty expensive (probably a few thousand) and would take a long time to get that money back in savings on my heating bill. The only reason I thought propane, is because I could get a propane tank for outside my garage. But I don't like the condensation issues...

This is another reason why I am looking into the electric heat options. Sounds like Doug is happy with his Comfort Cove IR heaters. I don't think I'll be in my shop 40 hours a week, but maybe if I'm lucky I will if I'm that lucky then I'll put the money into bringing gas out to the shop, and getting a gas heater.

I have 30 x 40 detached shop that I heat with a natural gas radiant heater. The heater draws combustion air in from one end of the building, heats a 20' long heat tube, and exhausts out the other end of the building. Its very efficient and comfortable because it heats the objects in the room rather than the air. Its also nice because it doesn't blow dust around the shop like forced air heaters do and there's no open flame. I rented a ditch witch and dug my own trench to run a 200' gas line from my house to the shop and installed the heater by myself. I would rate it as an easy to medium difficulty job.

[Doug W Swanson]

I understand that the gas heaters are low cost to run, unfortunately my garage is not attached to my house, and to run a gas line out there would be pretty expensive (probably a few thousand) and would take a long time to get that money back in savings on my heating bill. The only reason I thought propane, is because I could get a propane tank for outside my garage. But I don't like the condensation issues...

That's one of the reasons I ended up using electric heaters. It would have cost $1000 to run a gas line to my detached garage. Since I was already running electricity it wasn't a big deal to upgrade for the heaters. I have three heaters on each 20A/2P circuit. They are all tied together with a couple of relays to run off one thermostat. I did all of the wiring myself so that was another savings.

[Kevin Guarnotta]

When I ran electricity out to my shop, I ran enough so I can add three heaters to my sub-panel in the shop with no problem.
I guess if I knew I was going to be living here for a long time, I might consider running a gas line out there, but as it stands, I would not be surprised if I moved within 5 years. Then I could bring the electric heaters with me.