No no. Upside down. :-POriginally Posted by Jim Koepke
Contributor
No no. Upside down. :-P
The Barefoot Woodworker.
Fueled by leather, chrome, and thunder.
Contributor
Less likely to leave unsightly scratches that way.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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Chris Schwarz has a nice video reply on the Lost Art Press blog (video's on Youtube).
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Here's what I don't care for about Chris Schwarz, he writes on his blog thusly:
"Whenever I set up a new plane, this [sic] are the exact steps I take to get it out of the box and planing wood. It’s a different approach than the one in the article and video. I think my method is valid, and I hope you will consider it."
Reasonable enough.
And then he undoes it completely by parenthetically adding the word "really," apparently for emphasis and effect, to the title of the video. The master has spoken I guess.
I'm more or less ambivalent to Tommy MacDonald. I did visit his website and viewed the pieces in his portfolio, a good exercise for anyone to undertake before they dismiss his approach entirely. He clearly knows what he's doing.
I've seen a lot of workbenches by Chris Schwarz. Where is his bombe' secretary, a Salem secretary, Federal breakfront, Hepplewhite sideboard? Maybe I missed these.
http://www.thomasjmacdonald.com/cont...-mac-furniture Take a thorough look!
When an individual skilled enough, disciplined enough, and organized enough to complete the pieces at the link above speaks I tend to listen to what they have to say or at least give them the benefit of the doubt that they know a little bit about woodworking and tools.
Otherwise, it is absurd on its face to assume (makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me") that everything from certain manufacturers, or any manufacturer, is perfect. If a guy who *clearly* qualifies as a master woodworker makes a little nip and tuck here and there then so be it. I'll certainly keep it all in the back of my mind.
And, for what it's worth, it took three right hand skew block planes from Lie-Nielsen before I got one that was "correct." And I still had to file burrs here and there. Really. The machining on one screw post was so bad you could see it with the naked eye and the depth adjustment nut seized in a turn and half both ways. It happens. They made it right, but stuff happens. I have an L-N scrubber and the cap screw is still balky. After seven years.
I honestly hope FW shows a little backbone and doesn't offer up an unnecessary apology. There are a few of us who are less 'star struck' with the tool companies. I was actually encouraged by the fact that FW wasn't performing the usual kowtow as has become commonplace from a lot of quarters.
Last edited by Charlie Stanford; 12-09-2012 at 3:09 PM.
Member
I hear you, Charles, but see it a bit differently.
Successfully making pieces of furniture - at least furniture that looks competent in photos even ( I take you have not experienced Tomy's pieces in person) - is not necessarily an indication that the maker has mastered all aspects of tools and woodworking. The body of knowledge is just too large and the methods of getting to given ends just too diverse. In short, Tommy may be able to make a Secretary, but still not know what to do to fettle a high end modern plane.
Tommy strikes me as someone out to make himself into a woodworking personality and spokesperson - a new Norm or some such. He seems to be for sale. His video didn't come across as informed by experience and insight as much as having read other articles over the years about steps one might consider for fettling.
Chris' video on the other hand came across as practical and well informed by real world experience and actual results with the tool.
My own experience in the real world with planes tells me that Chris is right and that Tommy's advice is likely to cause amateurs to ruin some nice planes.
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The man can apparently work wood. One doesn't knock out anything in the bombe' form without chops. He learned SOMETHING at North Bennet. And he did not get through that program without a pretty extensive exposure to hand tools I'm pretty sure.
I think he was told he could be the next Norm Abrams, he's actually probably a better furnituremaker than Norm ever was or could be, but somehow the production just doesn't "come off" like it should. A large part of the blame certainly falls on the production folks around him.
Tommy is trying to get a demographic of 50+ year olds to identify with him. That's tough, he doesn't look like us, well, maybe a much younger, fitter, muscular, and thicker-haired version of all of us. If that dude couldn't run all the serious leg in Boston then my name isn't Charles Stanford. Might as well face it. Those days are behind most of us. A lot of guys hated him by the time the first five words came out of his mouth.
Look, clueless beginners shouldn't try to fettle even an inexpensive Anant. No disagreement from me that somebody who doesn't know what they're doing shouldn't approach a Lie-Nielsen plane with 40 grit and an engineer's scraper in hand. I have a sense that something was left on the cutting room floor or out of the script. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt. By my experience, though, I am certainly unwilling to just take as Gospel that anybody's handplane (except maybe a Holtey) will be perfect out of the box.
Last edited by Charlie Stanford; 12-09-2012 at 3:17 PM.
Member
Very good point and I felt this way too. It was unnecessary.
I have been at a few LN tool events and there is no shortage of guys with too much money and way too little patience and experience, so much so that I feel like some kind of Yoda-esque guru of woodworking by comparison. Based on a few observations some of these guys think these tools should magically make furniture all by themselves and the LN people seem quite used to it with eye rolling visible across the room. Like spoiled college students who think daddy's big tuition check should buy them all A's, some of these customers think they are buying woodworking skills with a few fancy planes or saws. Some of these guys can't even make shavings let alone furniture and yet have this sanctimonious attitude, "No electrons shall be part of thine craft." Yes, it is a minority, but a small petty part of me would kind of like to see one of these guys ruin a new $350 plane with some 80 grit paper. Still, I doubt it will ever happen. The opposite, that each tool will magically impart craftsmanship with gossamer shavings, seems to be the predominate mindset.
Member
I don't understand this or wonder if there is some innuendo at play. Are you saying you have seen his work in person and that he is not competent? I'm curious to hear what you think if you have.
Of all the TV shows available now, it seems like Tommy Mac should be getting the least criticism! Maybe this forum is being a little hard on him because unlike Scott Phillips, he really should know better.
Last edited by Peter Hawser; 12-09-2012 at 2:35 PM.
Contributor
Maybe the part where the chip breaker screw is loosened and then tightened with the lever cap should have been left on the cutting room floor.I have a SENSE that something was left on the cutting room floor or out of the script.
Many times someone has told me they knew what they were doing only to make a mess of a job. It is almost human nature to not admit to being unfamiliar with a task that needs doing. Probably guilty of it more than a few times myself.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
No I have never seen it and didn't mean to imply anything. I was saying that pictures and in person are different (or at least often can be) .
Guest
With all due respect, I think in this case that's a huge stretch.
Is there anything in particular that makes you think he COULDN'T do that sort of work? Did NBSS graduate a dud?
Guest
Oh cripes I do this. I must have done it thousands of time and haven't left so much as a mark on a lever cap and if I did I'd just move down and use another part of the cap.
Contributor
Charlie ,I don't don't know what the guy is capable of doing ,but tv always has producers and I doubt the show reflects how he actually works on his own time. I hope he does not think the best way to make 'sprung' glue joints is to use a power jointer and then tweak it with hand plane, but he does that on the show. That joint can be done with either tool,I don't see any good reason to reason to use both on the same boards. I think he is a smart guy, who's show I don't find helpful.
Member
So you have never had the experience of taking a picture that obscures imperfections, or indeed, taking pictures that do not capture the qualities of the piece? If you trust the school, you don't even need the pictures I suppose.
Member
Charles, everything else aside, who do you think handled the set-up more correctly? Tommy or Chris? If we just stick to the substance - whether the information is correct, the proxies - the indirect indicators of likely wisdom can be dispensed with.
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