FWW's "Every Handplane Needs a Tuneup" - a video response

[george wilson]

I agree with Sean that pictures are not the same thing as seeing the work in person. A picture of a large piece taken from 10 or more feet away(to get all of it into the picture) can leave out the fine details that make for superior workmanship. On the other hand,extreme closeups will show imperfections quite well.

I haven't seen this furniture in person,but I do know that pictures taken from several feet away just don't tell the whole story. If I have them,or can make them,I try to include some closeups with my own pictures. You really can't tell if inlay really fits properly from a few yards away,nor can you tell a lot of other details.

I have bought quite a few LN planes for use at work,and at home (not that I really needed them),and I have not found imperfections in them. The LV planes are also marvelously well machined and ground. Someone must be unlucky with buying tools.

The truth is,makers like LN and LV are now making some of the finest tools ever made,in the reasonably priced market that you can afford.

[David Weaver]

Tommy's endorsement is essentially for sale, his original podcast was made in hopes of getting a paying show. It looks like he does pretty nice work and he went through the NBSS, but most of his original podcasts had a lot of power tool and jig work in them.

His original show informed users with the hand tools he does use to buy cheap and make the tools into something you want, but he had gotten a few LN tools before WC picked up his show and I recall him saying several times "I hate to say it, but these are really nice and they work really really well".

I'd imagine FWW requested information and instead of saying "i'm not an expert in that" he filled the obligation to make an article/video.

That said, I don't put a whole lot in what CS says, either. He's a writer and a publisher, not a fine woodworker, and his advice is for beginners with an eye toward some social obligation to buy from current makers. He's had some comments that make no sense, (like ridiculous claims of LN tools being cheaper than vintage tools because it's too difficult to make old tools usable).

[Sean Richards]

Do people seriously pay much attention to these videos, magazines etc?

[David Weaver]

Beginners pay a lot of attention to them, and so do toolmakers and retailers, I'd bet.

I've seen some really ridiculous things lately, targeted at beginners. Yesterday, I was trying to find strop hardware (something that costs a dollar or two) for razor strops, and when I searched google, it gave me a match of a bench strop that was either ply or MDF and with a strip of leather, on a base that fits in a dog hole....$140. Really...$140 for a stone sized piece of leather on some wood contraption.

Who else could it be aimed at? I don't know if anyone has a blog post yet describing the virtues of $10 of leather and wood for $140, but when I subscribed to them, that's just the kind of junk that was peddled at beginners.

And though nobody likes to hear this, the goofy trade of high dollar marking knives and high dollar marking gauges is a product of a beginners market.

( I did ultimately find my strop hardware from an equine supply store for $1.22. I'm glad I didn't have to go through a woodworking boutique tool place to get it, it would've been unaffordable).

[Jason Coen]

And though nobody likes to hear this, the goofy trade of high dollar marking knives and high dollar marking gauges is a product of a beginners market.

What's "high dollar"? It will obviously vary from person to person, but I'm curious as to where you'd draw the line.

[David Weaver]

Personally, I'd say $30+ for a knife with a small scrap of steel in it and a brass ferrule is high dollar. It should be telling to woodworkers when they don't find a whole bunch of ornate vintage woodworking knives. They are something that can be made from shop scrap.

Someone did buy me a BS small knife once a while ago, it's nice, but I could've made something just as functional for free, and though I'm not a "craftsman", I do have enough scrap spring steel floating around to make a marking knife without using anything that would cost money.

Marking knives, boutique mallets, marking gauges, expensive non-guaranteed squares, expensive strops ....all of these things are inexpensive to make and aimed at beginners.

[Jason Coen]

Personally, I'd say $30+ for a knife with a small scrap of steel in it and a brass ferrule is high dollar. It should be telling to woodworkers when they don't find a whole bunch of ornate vintage woodworking knives. They are something that can be made from shop scrap.

Is that all these knives are, though? Does ornamentation or design play any part? What about convenience?

There are numerous things that I could make from shop scrap that I've gladly paid good money to purchase Instead of make for various reasons. Last year when i made my first set of moulding planes, for instance, I gladly bought the needeed floats instead of making them myself (which I could have easily done). i was interested in spending my free time making planes, not floats. I'm not sure that qualifies as "goofy".

Marking knives, boutique mallets, marking gauges, expensive non-guaranteed squares, expensive strops ....all of these things are inexpensive to make and aimed at beginners.

I hold my knife and gauge probably more than any other tool. Why shouldn't I trade money for time and skill and get the exact knife I want instead of learning how to turn and finish a small cylinder? I want to make furniture, not pen bodies. Same with the other stuff - if someone likes it, newbie or not, I'm not going begrudge them paying more money to acquire it than in my opinion is reasonable

[Charlie Stanford]

I agree with Sean that pictures are not the same thing as seeing the work in person. A picture of a large piece taken from 10 or more feet away(to get all of it into the picture) can leave out the fine details that make for superior workmanship. On the other hand,extreme closeups will show imperfections quite well.

I haven't seen this furniture in person,but I do know that pictures taken from several feet away just don't tell the whole story. If I have them,or can make them,I try to include some closeups with my own pictures. You really can't tell if inlay really fits properly from a few yards away,nor can you tell a lot of other details.

I have bought quite a few LN planes for use at work,and at home (not that I really needed them),and I have not found imperfections in them. The LV planes are also marvelously well machined and ground. Someone must be unlucky with buying tools.

The truth is,makers like LN and LV are now making some of the finest tools ever made,in the reasonably priced market that you can afford.

There are close-up photos of every piece on his website. At least close enough for me.

To believe his work is sub-standard one has to throw North Bennet under the bus. Maybe he's total fluff. Don't think so but who knows.. I do know the school is not.

Still looks pretty good to me. Maybe it's just smoke and mirrors:

http://www.thomasjmacdonald.com/cont...alem-secretary

Click on the thumbnails for a pleasant surpris at the link above.

More info:

http://www.thomasjmacdonald.com/tommypieces.php

He apparently built and sold the block-front secretary while a student at NBSS.

His website says the Hepplewhite sideboard sold for $50,000.

The bombe' secretary was apparently a copy of a piece at the RISD museum. His copy was put on display for six months next to the original at the RISD museum.

I think I'm going to go out to the shop and fettle the hell out of a Lie-Nielsen plane. :-)

[Charlie Stanford]

Sean, it's a reach at best.

Stop digging would be the best advice I can offer you at the moment.

[george wilson]

First of all,I DID NOT say his work was sub standard. All I said is that you need good very closeup pictures to evaluate work. In person is still best. I'm not familiar with his work anyway. I'll look at your pictures.

Personally,I find building furniture rather boring. I make instruments and tools and flintlock guns,cannon,and do replacement parts for mechanical antiques (that's where I actually can make money!)

I don't know why you are trying to throw LN under the bus. Have you bought 10 of them? I have,and no problem. I am not affiliated with them in any way. In fact,I had a problem with their customer service myself years ago. I can't go into it here.

Read into my posts what you will,o.k.? Now,feel free to ruin your LN plane,if it suits you,by all means.

[Sean Hughto]

I think my old friend Charles is berating me, George. Not you.

Charles, I see you find it easier to answer things I did not say than the things I did. This is all rather stupid anyway, so suit yourself.

I had some fun at the lathe today making some end table legs. What choo been makin?

[David Weaver]

Charles also believes that some premium tool makers have made an active effort to get him banned from forums. Temper comments with that.

[Charlie Stanford]

I think my old friend Charles is berating me, George. Not you.

Charles, I see you find it easier to answer things I did not say than the things I did. This is all rather stupid anyway, so suit yourself.

I had some fun at the lathe today making some end table legs. What choo been makin?

Shaker chairs.

[David Weaver]

Is that all these knives are, though? Does ornamentation or design play any part? What about convenience?

There are numerous things that I could make from shop scrap that I've gladly paid good money to purchase Instead of make for various reasons. Last year when i made my first set of moulding planes, for instance, I gladly bought the needeed floats instead of making them myself (which I could have easily done). i was interested in spending my free time making planes, not floats. I'm not sure that qualifies as "goofy".


I hold my knife and gauge probably more than any other tool. Why shouldn't I trade money for time and skill and get the exact knife I want instead of learning how to turn and finish a small cylinder? I want to make furniture, not pen bodies. Same with the other stuff - if someone likes it, newbie or not, I'm not going begrudge them paying more money to acquire it than in my opinion is reasonable

Floats aren't really a relevant comparison because they are much harder to make than a marking knife, and they go to a much narrower audience. I stand by my comments on the knives, they don't need to be small cylinders, you could shape anything with a shave or even sandpaper. Spring steel can be cut with a hacksaw and filed to shape.

As far as what people can buy, of course they can buy whatever they like. I bought a lot of things I learned to make, but at this point, I'm glad I didn't spend a lot of money on purchased marking knives.

[Charlie Stanford]

Huh? Who would that be?