Krenov versus traditional Wood planes

[Tony Wilkins]

Jeff Heath, when the plane maker (moi) is just starting to consider being a plane maker then that skills piece is non-existent. I know that skilled crafts men can make either kind work wonderfully. Me on the other hand needs to know what the pros and cons of each is so I can figure out which is better suited for someone of little skill -- or at least for me.

[Derek Cohen]

When starting out, make laminated bodies. They are easier, and you achieve both satisfaction and results.

When you are past this stage and more demanding, both of your own work and others, then you build or purchase solid body planes. They are more difficult to build and prized for the traditional method.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Larry Williams]

.....Looking at some of the planes folks have made, I notice a lot of very nice Krenov style planes in every size and function. I also have been thinking about the 'traditional' style of planes that I have already....the $64 question: what are the differences in crafting/using these two style of planes?

Tony,

The traditional planes and traditional trade practices evolved together on generations of skilled craftsmen's benches over centuries. There are so many features of traditional planes, some subtle and some not so subtle, that make the planes not only ideal for their traditional tasks but also work with the woodworker's body. A plane can function as an intuitive, natural, and agile extension of your arm or it can be a difficult, clumsy chunk of wood that will wear you out in minutes. The two can look very similar.

It's closing in on 40 years since I made my first plane and more than 30 since I sold my first planes. I started out with Krenov style planes but was never happy with them. I came to realize I needed to chose between making a statement and making tools. Making a plane that takes gossamer shavings is easy but making a tool that's ideally suited to its purpose and functions efficiently with the user is entirely different. I wanted to make tools and knew that doing so would require a lot of study and learning. I knew I needed to learn the techniques and sequences of traditional trade practice to understand the reasons for the various features of the tools. The more one learns, the more sophisticated traditional planes appear and the more respect one gains for the amazing volume of knowledge of early plane makers.

Your question is better suited for the topic of a book than a woodworking forum post. I'm not the person to try to write that book. I still have a lot of questions and still regularly learn new stuff. I can say one thing though. I've never picked up a Krenov style plane that left me feeling like using it for a couple long days at my bench would be anything but an uncomfortable struggle.

[Stanley Covington]

Tony,

The more one learns, the more sophisticated traditional planes appear and the more respect one gains for the amazing volume of knowledge of early plane makers. I've never picked up a Krenov style plane that left me feeling like using it for a couple long days at my bench would be anything but an uncomfortable struggle.

What he said.

Stan

[Tony Wilkins]

Larry, after using your planes, it certainly does speak volumes to what you say. So what would you say is the easiest traditional plane to make is?

[Larry Williams]

Tony,
Because everything you need is readily available, hollows and rounds are probably the easiest to make.

[Tony Wilkins]

Tony,
Because everything you need is readily available, hollows and rounds are probably the easiest to make.

How hard would a wooden rebate plane be to go with them?

[Jim Matthews]

The amount of material above the opening will have an effect on the front bearing surface - just before the iron.

If it's too thin "up top" twist can be induced when the wedge is driven home.
If it's too narrow, a convex curve may be similarly forced by the wedge.

Getting that balance right is difficult.

Mr. Williams has been kind enough to post loads of useful info about "rolling your own".
If you buy from one of these experienced makers, you're paying to avoid the necessary mistakes of first timers.
http://www.planemaker.com/aboutourplanes.html

At a seminar with Matt Bickford, he got misty-eyed describing Clark&Williams/Old Street tools - these guys make great planes.

The generosity of spirit from people like these is humbling.

Now, if I could just afford the handplanes...
maybe I needn't send both kids to college?

[Metod Alif]

Jeff,
I would just like to tell how much I appreciate your post. Perfect for a 'thinking' woodworker. It takes much longer to help somebody to accomplish a goal when his/her understanding isn't there. The advantage is, that you can sell him/her much hot air.
Good surface (as often reflected in 'gossamer shavings') and comfortable grip and balance is all you need. I do want that the tools look good to me. The rest is marketing gimmickry or some excuse for personal validation.
Best wishes,
Metod

[Tony Wilkins]

I'm fortunate to have two of their planes (smoother and jack) and they are things of wonder to use. More's the pity that they aren't taking orders right now.

[Larry Williams]

How hard would a wooden rebate plane be to go with them?

Tony,
I find rabbet planes a little more difficult than hollows and rounds, good bedding of the iron and shaping the conical escapement are what is more difficult. Make some hollows and rounds to learn the basics then getting rabbet planes right doesn't involve that much more.

[Jeff Heath]

Jeff Heath, when the plane maker (moi) is just starting to consider being a plane maker then that skills piece is non-existent. I know that skilled crafts men can make either kind work wonderfully. Me on the other hand needs to know what the pros and cons of each is so I can figure out which is better suited for someone of little skill -- or at least for me.

Tony

It's all in the "doing". I remember the first piece of woodworking I did back in shop class back in '75. It takes time to learn the skills, and the only way I have figured out how to get good at anything in life is with lots of practice.

Laminated planes are easier to make for most people; I know that they take less time for me. I would recommend, like others already have, that you start there, and by doing so, you will learn quickly about the critical areas of a wooden plane that have to be just right for the plane to function optimally. In the beginning, don't use your most expensive and favorite plane billets, because you're going to make some firewood. That's ok. You'll learn from each mistake, and depending upon what type of student you are from yourself, and what you gleam from others, you will be on your way to making well-performing tools. The learning curve is in your hands.

Once you've made a few laminated planes, then I suggest you move on to making some traditional style planes. Larry has already chimed in here, and I think you would be unwise to continue without purchasing his outstanding DVD on the subject...."Making Traditional Side Escapement Planes". Watching that DVD for the first time really inspired me. After I made my 5th matched set of H&R's, I went back and re-made my first 2 matched sets. Having the DVD for reference is priceless until you get into a rhythm.

As far as skillset goes, what I was personally referring to is the skills of the woodworker as a woodworker......not as a planemaker. I had 25 years of earning a living with woodworking before I made my first plane. That's what I'm referring to. A beginning woodworker with no skills using chisel and hand plane is not going to understand what makes a hand plane function correctly for quite some time. The skilled woodworker has an advantage.

I have little knowledge of the actual skill level of most of the folks on this forum, as I've seen very little of their work.

Good luck with your planemaking, and enjoy the process.

Jeff