A chip breaker reminder

[Zach Dillinger]

Happy little tribes. Happy little blogs. Happy little chipbreakers. And a titanium white plane iron for all.

And remember, there are no mistakes, only happy accidents.

[Mel Fulks]

Well, briefly, things first started to get complicated when the old apprentice system ended. "Do it like I said do it ,or get out " was a good way to teach and many learned a lot .

[Charlie Stanford]

So would I, the client likely wouldn't care, and timing and money combined together is a different ballgame.

Well, it's a start isn't it David? At least we've established that there is some area in all of this where a pragmatic approach makes sense. There are others, for sure.

[David Weaver]

Well, it's a start isn't it David? At least we've established that there is some area in all of this where a pragmatic approach makes sense. There are others, for sure.

Any time you're building for pay to a deadline, or building something that someone else wants you to build and you don't want to....what other approach is there?

Somewhere around January or February through however long it takes, my wife expects me to build new kitchen cabinets. Plywood, router, Tracksaw, mechanical drawer guides and spray lacquer seem like a good idea. What do you think? I don't know if I can bring myself to sand, but there shouldn't be much planing to do after the stock for the face frames, doors and drawers goes through a power planer, huh?

[george wilson]

David,I'd just go buy them. I know you don't want to make them.

[Derek A. Johnson]

Gentlemen,

I value the online woodworking forums and greatly appreciate the contributions made by both long-time professionals and those new to the craft. Of what use is a forum without the participation of those willing to share their hard-earned knowledge and those desiring to learn.

I have read this entire thread, however, and the tone is discouraging. It's not what is being said, but how it is said. I believe the root of the problem is that some of the posts are disrespectful. I am not, and will never be a professional woodworker, but I am a professional teacher. Perhaps, as some have implied, that means I can't do, but I would like to share one lesson I have learned anyhow. In 24 years of teaching physics to high school students I have learned that the very worst thing you can do is to disrespect a student--put them down in front of others, humiliate them, make them feel dumb, elevate yourself and diminish them. When I overhear students talk about a teacher they "hate", the reason is never that the teacher made them work hard, corrected their mistakes, taught them something new, made them think, or even gave them a failing grade. It always comes down to the issue of respect. Once you lose it, a student is very hard to teach.

Learning can be painful, I know. I teach a wonderfully interesting subject, the mention of which all too frequently strikes fear into those who ask what I teach. Oh, the anger I feel towards those teachers and professors who ruined the experience of learning physics. How I conduct myself can make all the difference. I want to share my knowledge and I want them to learn, so I need to exhibit patience, a sense of humor, and a desire to move the student forward in a way that doesn't alienate them. I need to respect them.

Similarly, this forum is a place for teaching and learning and I think that the same principle applies. I believe some of the posters feel that they have been disrespected and are lashing out. Both teachers and students need to feel respected. That doesn't mean we can't argue points and disagree with each other. It does mean that how you do it matters. We are not apprentices and few will tolerate being spoken to as such. It appears that the hand tool forum has lost a participant, perhaps due to this thread, and I think that is a shame. It diminishes this forum for all.

I know I am not a regular participant, but I have followed this forum for years. Consider this a comment from someone usually standing on the sidelines observing, yet who values the game. Please be respectful in your posts. Think about how they will be perceived by others--being correct is not the only goal. I believe the goal is to teach, to learn, and to enjoy through sharing our experiences. If I ever finish that darn tool chest, I'll be sure to post all the lessons I learned there.


Derek Johnson

[Jim Koepke]

Derek,

Thanks for a thoughtful and informative post.

I am looking forward to your tool chest post.

jtk

[george wilson]

Well written,Derek,and welcome. I agree with what you said,but you cannot not know the undertow of what happened in the past. But,I still agree with your policy. As a kid,I was living in your area,and was on 3 light houses: Destruction Island,Lime Kiln,and Point No Point.

[Matt McCormick]

Gentlemen,

I value the online woodworking forums and greatly appreciate the contributions made by both long-time professionals and those new to the craft. Of what use is a forum without the participation of those willing to share their hard-earned knowledge and those desiring to learn.

I have read this entire thread, however, and the tone is discouraging. It's not what is being said, but how it is said. I believe the root of the problem is that some of the posts are disrespectful.
Derek Johnson

Very nice Post Derek. I would like to try to tell you what I see, I see most of us here are Hobbyists and a good number are good enough to even earn some money doing our hobby. We have a very nice community here and other places. I went to the WIA in Pasadena and boy did I meet some wonderful people. I also met some of MY woodworking Hero's, Roy, Chris, Adam, Mary May and others I went to Roy's dinner he hosted, I really like Roy allot. I have bought every book he has written on woodworking, I have bought some of my favorite episodes of his TV show, I have most of Chris's books and videos too. Money is not easy for me to come by (like most here) but I am happy with spending it on learning from these guys. My trade is Toolmaking(I make and design micro-surgical instruments). I really enjoy Roy's world, I really like Chris's professorial slant on things, and I believe he is most responsible for the hand tool craze today. Great guy!!
I posted a picture of Bob Ross the PBS how to paint guy, I liked him and learned much from him. I also posted a painting by Monet(I am old but never met him). Roy Chris and others teach and write for money, I am very glad that they do. I'll bet they are very thankful they can do it and love it. We also have a Few craftsmen that are in the Monet mold in that they are professional craftsmen they have no money at stake in sharing their knowledge. One of these guys gets a bum rap in MY opinion...... I don't think his pointing out some things others do or teach , is ego driven. I think he sees something wrong and comments on it.
If I said the symbol for Aluminum is AU instead of AL you would point this out right? I also am not blind, I see some bad experiences in the past by some of our protagonists with each other. I ran a Physics machine-shop at a major university once, met some awesome people, scary smart, some almost crazy with no people skills at all! I would much rather learn physics from you than some of those guys...... But I would listen to them if they decided to explain quantum anything to me.
Almost the same here. I don't think Chris clearing out some groups from his favorites is from hurt feelings.... He is a bigger man than that, He's not left us never to return, more like, Heck they saw me bang a saw on the floor..... I think I will rethink that and I think I would rather go have a micro-brew rather than spend the next week hashing this out in a public forum. Of course thats what I think he is thinking ...... Again guys I am sorry for my poor writing skills .... and now promise to return to the land of lurking...... until you gore my ox of course...... -your old pal matt

PS- I will add some smilies here so you all will know I am not being mean just in case.....

[Chris Griggs]

.... and now promise to return to the land of lurking...... until you gore my ox of course...... -your old pal matt

PS- I will add some smilies here so you all will know I am not being mean just in case.....

Ah don't go back to the land of the lurking we could use some new blood in our tribe. I'm getting bored of us, new folks make things more interesting. Plus I like all your smiles.

[David Weaver]

Matt, I get exactly what you're saying. And I agree with it entirely.

I wonder how many people got into hand tools without external publication influence. I didn't know of anyone other David Charlesworth when I started with hand tools, which was maybe 7 years ago now. The only reason I even knew anything about him was because a friend who was major major into working wood like you'd work metal with machines said I should get a lie nielsen block plane to go along with the power tools, and that I should watch the charlesworth video to learn to sharpen it.

First edge was a good one and that was the end of the story, a premium bench plane followed several months later for christmas. Now that guy calls me "Luddite" and says he's not sure what he did to lead me down the wrong path that I've taken

Anyway, those of us who got here mostly by chance, less by reading and more by independent wants... i wonder if we have less allegiance toward personality and more toward absolute quality of information. I do.

[Zach Dillinger]

i wonder if we have less allegiance toward personality and more toward absolute quality of information. I do.

Gosh, I hope this is true for all of us. If we get caught in a cult of personality, the craft as a whole is going to suffer. This isn't intended to denigrate anyone, especially not George, or Roy, or Schwarz. They all provide good information in different ways.

[george wilson]

I'm afraid that allegiance towards personality trumps allegiance to actual knowledge. That's why the public keeps electing the presidents we do. It's human nature. And look where it's gotten us!!

[John A. Callaway]

David, or any of you other guys..... I have looked around on the " central " forum and due to its weird setup compared to this forum, I can't really find the articles over there that give the end result and proper ways to set up a chip breaker to work in the manner those videos indicate. Can some one please p.m. Me a link or something...?

I certainly wish that forum was set up like this one. Seems like a very expansive collection of knowledge, much like this place is!

I have the thread on this forum, and if all of what's is over there is included on this one, I can go back and read it all the way through now that it has pretty much been wrapped up.
Thanks.

[Chris Griggs]

Google "setting a cap iron" and it's the first thing to come up.