A chip breaker reminder

[george wilson]

I have seen on the blog of a well known woodworking personality that he seems to have discovered that the chip breaker is indeed a functional item,and made it an article on his blog. Formerly,he had not seen its usefulness,apparently.

He does mention in the body of the writing: "After recent discussions of the Japanese film"(words to that effect,at least),he has learned the usefulness of the chip breaker. No names are mentioned,and that statement is rather brief.

I would like to remind everyone that it was David Weaver here who brought the Japanese film to our attention on SMC. I just want to make sure that credit is given where it is due. David does not have a blog,and that is a handicap to those of us who do not,or choose to not have one. I don't feel that I am currently active enough to have a blog.

I learned a lot myself from David's presentation of this material. Formerly,I had used mostly single iron antique planes,which were the norm in the 18th.C.(except for late in the period). I'd used other dodges to get around tearing,such as planing curly maple directly across the grain with a very sharp iron, sharpening to a higher angle at the cutting edge,or other methods. So,I found David's info,and the film very useful.

I am glad to see that apparently David's thread and subsequent discussions have been educational to all,even some of the "gurus" among us

[David Weaver]

And credit should go directly to Bill Tindall for all of the technical information, and Warren Mickley for telling us for years that if you can't use a common pitch plane to smooth a board with through strokes (no skewing, wetting, etc..) then you haven't mastered the double iron.

We all fought it for a long time, I did, too. But warren is right. Warren doesn't always get a lot of respect from us, maybe because he's subtle, but he should.

Kees was doing the same thing at the same time, before any bloggers brought anything up. Kees, Chris and I were talking about it and then Bill and I were talking about how to get marching orders to people to use it since we were vexed by Warren's explanation that "it's subtle", a craftsman like warren won't have to think about what he's doing. For the rest of us, the advice is easy.

I'd suspect that there's going to be all kinds of disinformation and misinformation about how to use the cap iron, the flow of beginners never stops. But credit guys like Warren, and credit to information miners like Bill Tindall. 10 years from now, we'll probably end up going through the same iteration again.

Use your stock vintage cap irons at their stock angle, hone the others at 45 degrees or 50 degrees, 80 degrees isn't needed. Warren has said the same, I believe - that he didn't recall having to do much with cap irons. Warren's comments are the gold standard for double iron use and its effectiveness, and should be valued above anything anyone else says.

Forum discussion is where the specifics of all of this originated, and it's where everyone picked up on it at first. The value of the open forum discussions should be credited for its re-discovery and practical use for amateurs on a wide basis. If rebroadcast is made describing the process as fiddly or difficult, it's just wrong. It's easier to learn to set the cap iron properly than it is to learn to sharpen properly.

George, you made an influential comment, too. When I said that setting a cap iron was difficult if you're talking about some thousandths of an inch, you said "it's really not that hard".

I do wish warren would participate more in discussions here, he has a lot of advice just like georges - the result of professional experience and diligent research over decades. I've argued with warren a lot only to end up on the wrong side of correct in the end. At least that made it so I knew enough not to argue with george!

[Kees Heiden]

I do wish warren would participate more in discussions here, he has a lot of advice just like georges - the result of professional experience and diligent research over decades. I've argued with warren a lot only to end up on the wrong side of correct in the end. At least that made it so I knew enough not to argue with george!

Yes, that's a good point. Who do you listen to in these forums? In the past I also though Warren was just an old curmudgeon. He can be very terse in his writings, which makes it difficult to understand the message.

There are other people on forums who I first thought were idiots (well sometimes everybody is an idot of course), but when you dig a little deeper you find a wealth of experience. Often the message is about keeping it simple and not buying every shiny new woodworking tool available. Make your current tools work for you, practice, use them in real life. That's how you advance.

Lately I have mostly done odd jobs around the house, so not really much planing of wood. But I've practiced a lot of sawing on all kinds of these jobs, which isn't bad either.


PS: I don't think CS ever claimed to have invented any of these old woodworking techniques. He is usually pretty honest about his source.

[Zach Dillinger]

Regardless of your religious or woodworking-dogma affiliations, I think the Buddha said it best:

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"

If you don't have enough experience to evaluate something, and instead rely on the words of others to make your decisions for you, you are in serious trouble. Everyone needs enough experience to have a "BS meter" for everything in life. So much of what we are subjected to on forums is pure BS, but too many readers don't have the experience to know it when they smell... err... read it. There's an old phrase, something, something from Shinola that applies to a lot of questions.

[Chris Griggs]

So much of what we are subjected to on forums is pure BS, but too many readers don't have the experience to know it when they smell... err... read it. There's an old phrase, something, something from Shinola that applies to a lot of questions.

I think a lot of what happens on forums is the blind leading the blind. After a while you stop starting every post with "I'm no expert but..." and if you're posting a lot I think a lot of people just assume you know what your talking about. As I became a frequent poster here, I started to see things I would say would influence someone else, and while one novice can certainly learn something from another novice and while I think I have some worthwhile experience to share, I definitely have times where I realize that my fairly limited experience could very well come off as tried and true advice.

Again, I think one novice can certainly give another novice great advice - sometimes someone who most recently struggled to learn something is a better teacher than someone who mastered it years ago. That said, having realized that I've been posting here a while not and post fairly often, I've been trying to make a point to caveat my level knowledge again, in case there are folks out there who come here for the first time and think that 1,500 posts someone equates to having completed 1,500 projects. Obviously it doesn't, but I think that's something that's easy to overlook when you are new the the forum circuit.

[george wilson]

I didn't say CS claimed the info as his own,but I'd liked to have had it known that David brought this up months ago,before everyone forgets. It was a memorable thread,and useful info was learned. Speaking of credit, in a Pop Woodworking article,it was said that the blacksmith shop made the plane irons for the planes in Wmsbg. shops,but "other artisans" made the wooden bodies. It was explained to me that there wasn't space to say "the toolmakers. Well,there are 13 letters and one space in each name,and most of the work in making solid(mortised out) planes is in the wooden parts.

I'd like to have credit given,too. After all,those many dozens of planes didn't hop onto the 16' bench. If you spent months making a few of these batches of planes,wouldn't you want credit too if mentioned in a magazine?



Sorry for the sideways picture. I don't feel like going way back and rotating it.

[Chris Griggs]

Yeah, he certainly did not claim to invent it. I hope it didn't seem like I was implying that either. Like George, I just hope everyone reads Dave's article over on that other forum (is it on Woodcentral?). Who knows, maybe CS hasn't even seen that article. He might have just noticed that people were talking about this on the forums and decided to start messing with it again himself. Either way, if he does see the article I think it would be very cool of him to post a link on his blog.

[David Weaver]

It's woodcentral. I doubt too many people have seen it. I think it's a TOS violation to link it directly, and besides, it's a bit dry for someone who isn't intending to use it to apply the cap iron. Anyone can find it on google by searching "setting a cap iron".

I learned that any article is a collaborative effort by writing that, and though I wrote the article, I wanted to make sure that we start out crediting Bill and Steve for actually digging up scientific proof for something we argued about for so long. Ellis will want to kill me for saying this, but I regret that I didn't take the pictures, I couldn't get good ones and I was too lazy to try. (ellis wouldn't kill anyone, he's a nice guy). We had discussions to extreme minutiae, all the way down to whether or not showing still a little bit of tearout in the second picture was OK. I shoot for none, but even if someone else shoots for a big reduction, I guess that's OK.

To describe the benefits, though, ellis had only played a little bit with a cap iron and got that much improvement right away. I don't know how much he normally hand planes. He is excellent with editing something like that and pointing out how it should read so that it can be understood.

[Carl Beckett]

thread 6 days old and pushing 6900 views. (did I read that right!!!)

Wow.

I am a student here, and appreciate everyone that contributes their thoughts and time. There is no doubt in my mind that many times I do not do things the 'right' way. I will admit, that sometimes I just dont care. (am horrified myself to think of all the different things I have used as a 'hammer')

Dereks post was especially appreciated. One of the reasons I like this forum is the willingness to offer feedback and direction - but also the tolerance to just say, ya - you really screwed that up but next time could do xyz and improve on it. Its just my personality, but if I have to sit through a long lecture and training on everything I ever tried - I would lose interest and go a different direction for sure. I also have a fair bit of philosophical value that 'there are a lot of ways to skin a cat', and 'Im not always looking for the 'optimal' way, just 'a' way'.

Which is just saying that yep. Sometimes I just aint gonna listen. Sorry. If this means someone is going to then withhold their knowledge.. well, ok then I guess. For me though - especially with my children - I offer then guidance and wisdom that I can, but let them ultimately make much of their own decisions and learn. My belief is that this experience is a key part of learning.

I try to respect everyone here. And can learn 'something', from 'anyone'. Even if they are giving me bad advice (because ultimately, my experience in trying out this advice will arm me with the knowledge to decide whether it is preferred over what I might otherwise do - and I do reserve this right to form that decision on my own, no matter where the source of the knowledge). I have learned over the years that so much of what we 'know' - we really dont. I want to hear it. Then will try it out for myself.

I guess this just makes me a cantankerous old woodworker wanna be.....

[David Weaver]

thread 6 days old and pushing 6900 views. (did I read that right!!!)

That's the "drawing heat" I referred to. Except wrestlers do it on purpose. We seem to have run into an influx of fans here.

One of the reasons I like this forum is the willingness to offer feedback and direction - but also the tolerance to just say, ya - you really screwed that up but next time could do xyz and improve on it.

I think that is exactly format this forum follows, but you are likely to get a better quality answer here than most places. It's one of the few forums I've seen where you will get this last part:

next time could do xyz and improve on it.

...and without a river current of folks coming down on a person offering good and precise advice.

[David Weaver]

. After all,those many dozens of planes .

Man, I'd love to have some of those.

[Chris Griggs]

Man, I'd love to have some of those.

Heck, I'd be happy just to get some wood blanks that nice!

[george wilson]

We worked out in the coldest time of year for 2 weeks,cutting down beech trees,and sawing 5000 bd. ft. of beech for the toolmaking program. Then,we hauled it all up into a tall attic space to dry for some years before we could use it. That's what "other artisans" have to do.

[Zach Dillinger]

Man, I'd love to have some of those.

Me too. I'd use the heck out of them!

[Mel Fulks]

Yeah David, In a group that big there are sure to be some "good ones".