Festool vacuum decision...

[Michael W. Clark]

Hmmm - sander quality. I've had my PC 333s for a long long time. Only had to change the pad on one in that time. My preference in pads is for sticky back paper. I'd say that P-C model is very durable. And their purchase price is far below that of a Festool. It's Festool's prices that stop me from buying any more of their stuff no matter how good it is. That's a shame.

I haven't had the PC, so I can't comment on it, but I do know PC makes some good tools as I have some PC power tools and really enjoy using them. However, I did buy one of the better Dewalt ROS 5" sanders and I had a hard time using it. Very noisy, lots of vibration, and all the sander wants to do is jump around on the work piece if not being held perfectly. Due to the grip arrangement, it is very fatiguing. The Festool sander by itself was more, but there is no comparison to the Dewalt. Far less vibration, probaly half the noise level or less, and much more forgiving on how it is held. I actually look forward to using it when coupled to the vac. I have some Dewalt tools that I really like, so not trying to be negative about Dewalt, just that particular sander.

The Festool vac works great, but not sure I would get one just for clean-up around the shop or use with a chop saw. I think it will not be adequate for chop saw dust collection, not enough CFM, and the hood design on most chop saws are lacking. The Festool vac would make a pricy shop-vac IMO, there are other features on the Festool vacs that warrent a higher sales price, so really can't compare the two. I do think you may find additional uses once you have one, but you will have to decide the value of that.

Whether or not the Festool prices are fair, it depends on the market and their business model. If the items are selling and their business model is going according to plan, then I would say they have the right combination of quality, price, and service for their intended market. I used to think it was too high priced and out of reach, but it sure beats any of the other sanders and vacs that I have owned.

[John Piwaron]

I can't remark on the DeWalt sander. About all to be said is to see it, try it out (if possible) and see if it meets your need. If not, there are other choices.

I use my Festool vac on my two sanders. No question. I also connect it to my Domino and to my P-C router with the grip vac. There are two bases for my 890 - the fixed base grip vac model and the one for plunging. In both cases I'd say dust and chip collection is ok at best. A router, like other things isn't really the easiest tool to collect from. I don't and would not use their vac as an all around shop vac. And like every other shop vac it doesn't have the right air flow for use as a dust collector.

Now, Festool's prices. I work in product engineering. So I have *some* (not all) idea of what goes into a product and the resulting impact on end cost. Festool has obviously put a *lot* of thought into their stuff. A lot. They work well. But, like every other companies products, not every unit they produce is without problems. My Festool vac had to be returned to them for service. It had a problem with an intermittent start. It was repaired by replacing the A/C motor within. That was warranty work. The Domino had a problem with the fence slipping. That is, it "self adjusted" the fence height. That problem I solved myself. I found a page that advised cleaning the clamping parts to remove any residual oils and rough up the clamping surface with a fine file like an ignition file. After that, no self adjust. The other problem I read about before I experienced it was the breakage some people were having with the lever that locked down the angle adjustment of the fence. The advise there was to be sure to avoid over tightening.

I had hoped that my Festools would be absolutely flawless for the money spent. But that was not the case for me. I'm probably the only guy that's had any trouble. The rest of their units are flawless. (I don't want Festool fanboy flames) I'm not unhappy with either machine. No way! They work well. They do things none of my other tools can do. And they do them well. But that doesn't stop them from being expensive. Would I buy another device from them? Yes. When I have a need and it fits the requirement. I think much of their cost is the result of their engineering. They've certainly done their homework. Their relatively high cost is justified by doing what they do very well. You won't soon be looking for a replacement because it's not performing correctly. It'll save you money by not buying the cheap XXXX and soon replacing it 'cause it wasn't quite up to the task.

At this time I don't have a portable circular saw. The Festool product will be top of the list for me to consider when I again need to use one.

[Damon Stathatos]

...and not to get off track...but how do you guys stand having a hose connected to your sanders ??? The power cord alone is enough to drive me nuts. For me, the bags they include with sanders is the first thing to go. Granted, I'm perfectly 'at home' wearing my dust mask while sanding and sawdust is just a fact of life in my shop, (and not just at the sanding station) but on the few occasions I've used a sander with a hose, it felt as if my unencumbered sander had just been hog-tied and shackled. It may just be me, but I'm almost embarrassed when someone walks into my shop after it's just been thoroughly cleaned...looks like I'm 'out of business' and they're the only fools who are considering my services. The shop gets a light sweeping when needed and a thorough cleaning about once a month, at which point I'm almost racing to at least get something messy once again.

Honestly, I'm not trying to start any great debates here, I just never could stand steering a hose along with my sanders. Am I the only one?

[Michael W. Clark]

John,
I'm pretty much the same opinion. I haven't had the issue you have had, so I'm sure it could be frustrating considering the price. I would defintely want some attention, replacement and for them to make it right if it wasn't. I don't buy only Festool either. I try to find the best combination of price/funtion/performance for my intended and anticipated future use. I have the same PC router (which I really like!), and use it with the Festool vac too. DC is better than nothing, but still leaves something to be desired, mostly because of the nature of the router. I used to use the router with a shop-vac, and I will say that it is a lot better with the Festool vac. Hose fits better, more flexible, automatic on with the vac, much quieter, and I think better suction. I'm also looking to get the tracksaw either for Christmas or later.

[Michael W. Clark]

...and not to get off track...but how do you guys stand having a hose connected to your sanders ???

You are probably not the only one. But I'm one of the ones that despise the paper masks. They sweat me and make me feel like I can't breath, plus they stink. I prefer the half-mask respirators when I have to wear one.

The hose bothers me when I'm not sanding horizontal, but I would rather deal with it as the mask, just personal preference. The Festool hoses stay on very well and I hold on to the Rotex where the hose and power chord come in, so that helps.

I agree the filter bags are useless. The auto off/on and quietness of the Festool vacs makes putting up with the hose a little more worth it. Less worth it with a noisy vac you have to manually turn off/on. Trying to bring it back to the vac question. Sorry for getting off-track.

[John Piwaron]

I used to sand that way. Let the dust go where it may. But I also don't like wearing a paper filter, dust mask or anything else. Cough, cough, cough. That was getting to be a real problem.

Plus, my woodworking is my hobby. It keeps me sane. It's in the basement of my house. My wife tolerated years of dust all over everything in the basement. But no longer. At the time we got a new HVAC system I was told to clean it all up. So now it's the Festool and a dust collector. No more cough, cough, cough.

Would I like no hoses or cords? Sure! But unless someone can cast a spell for the dust and chips to dutifully march to the trash bin I'll have to live with them.

[Ellen Benkin]

If you are offered a "deal" on Festool stuff, take it. You can always sell the items you don't want on Craigslist and maybe pay for the whole package. I just got a Festool sander for my birthday and, after years of being a reverse snob because of the prices, I have to admit that it is better than any other sander I've tried. Much less vibration and it doesn't seem to jerk around. Anyway, I'm now angling for a Festool vacuum to go with the sander. All their vacuums (or dust extractors) have HEPA ratings which was very important to me. I'm looking at the mini which others have assured me will work well with the sander. A Festool rep assured me that all the vacuums/dust extractors were exactly the same specs except for the size capacities and I don't need a big one to meet my needs.

[Peter Hawser]

I swore I would never spend $500 on a vac. A year later I got the CT22 and I can't believe how much I love this thing. It is so well designed I use it every time I am in the shop to keep all my shop clean. Shop vacs are to bulky with lousy hoses and attachments. IT is quiet, it is easy to move around, it performs heads and shoulders above your cheapo vac any day of the week. I have Festool sanders but I also hook it up to routers, belt sanders, dovetail jigs and biscuit joiners by other companies. However, my miter saw is hooked up to its own cheapo $40 home depot vac with an auto switch. Dedicating a Festool to my miter saw would be a waste. As for all the huffy cheapskate talk about Festool, even good vacs in the home are not cheap and the best cost $400 or much more. Compare your POS Hoover that will last a year with the top quality Miele or Dysons that not only last for years and years, but actually work.

[Jim Becker]

If you are not also considering buying into the Festool system, then there are alternatives available that meet your requirements of HEPA filtration and auto-start. Also be sure to consider noise levels--Festool, Fein and a few others excel at that, too. I don't consider Festool "overpriced"; rather, they are premium priced for products that have significantly great engineering and execution, especially when combined together to use as the aforementioned system. (Of course, price levels are relative to the buyer's needs, expectations and budget)

For the record I have ZERO regrets about investing in a whole bunch of Festool products. They have performed beyond my expectations, are engineered to last a long time and are designed for precision work. And the dude I bought them all from is about the best thing since sliced bread when it comes to customer service and integrity. (Bob Marino)

[Keith Outten]

Do yourself a favor and take a close look at the Oneida Dust Cobra.
Hepa filter and cyclone are the hot ticket.
.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Keith, you just threw another machine at me that I didn't know existed, very interesting!

My project I need this for first is actually the full renovation of an old house into a woodshop. I like the idea of using a cyclone separator to take the bulky stuff out, and the huge power of that Dust Cobra is very interesting. I have a 5hp Dust Gorilla that will eventually make the move to the new woodshop, I need a vacuum that is portable. The Cobra is big, but I think it may work.

I really want quiet though, can anybody help with a comparison:

The CT26 Festool says it is 62dB @ the low setting, no mention of the high dB level
The Dust Cobra claims 73dB @ 10'
I can't find a rating on the Dewalt
My 5hp Gorilla is 82dB

I know that my big cyclone is too loud to comfortably work around for very long, in my opinion, which is why it is getting a place in the basement of the new woodshop. Because the nature of working around vacuums dictates that you will be close to the noisy things, I want to know how the noise level of the Festool, Dewalt and Dust Cobra compare, on high settings. Maybe we have crossed into a new thread, but if anybody reads this far and has an opinion, share?

[Damon Stathatos]

The Dewalt specs show 72 db and 129 cfm.

The Festool specs show 62-72 db and 137 cfm.

One thing I just noticed about the Dewalt is that they offer a 90 day money back guarantee.
Not sure what hoops you'd need to jump through to actually take them up on it though.

[Matt Meiser]

Not sure what hoops you'd need to jump through to actually take them up on it though.

From the very few stories I've read, you just return it to the dealer. Of course if you buy online that might be less convenient than a local dealer.

[Damon Stathatos]

Rockler stores had the Dewalt as a Black Friday special for $199. Leading up to that fateful day, I did my thinking about and investigations into the possibility of setting one up with my sanders. As I have already stated, my Dynabrades are not set up for dust collection. I mostly use the Dynabrades but have an array of sanders, PC's, Bosch, a few Dewalt palms, etc. You might say that I have a propensity to 'pick up' sanders, for some strange reason. The Dynabrade issue coupled with the realization that (again previously and subsequently posted) I can't stand steering a hose with my sanders (purely personal 'issue') and the decision was an easy one...taking a pass on the whole idea.

And then...this thread.
And this thread keeps going...and going...Hepa vacs...quiet...best thing I ever bought...can't believe how my life was before my Hepa vac...on and on.

Not much doing today so I'm surfing around the Rockler site. Free shipping offer expires at 3pm Central Time. The price on their website is $219. No big deal, I'm over this issue...repeat to self...'can't set it up with my Dynabrades.'

And then...I 'stumble' upon this...no question, much room for design improvement but...tell me this isn't 'cool.' I have a Jet 15" that spews, literally, like Old Glory. Probably don't need a Hepa vac for a planer but, what the heck, ...Free Shipping Until 3pm Central, man !!! OK, so now I'm on a mission, it's almost 3pm Central...but before I press the point-of-no-return... 'Place Order' button, figured I give my local Rockler a call. You got it, they still have a few left over from Black Friday (they must have bought a lot of these) and guess what...the 'old' price, $199.

And so, I would like to formally thank everyone on this thread...thanks a lot 'men'...one more gizmo...one more project...two less c-notes...yeah...thanks again...

[scott vroom]

And so, I would like to formally thank everyone on this thread...thanks a lot 'men'

Er.....Ellen might have something to say about that...lol