Microbevel or not

[Tim Put]

To the original question: for me marking tools and guided tools like planes get hollow ground bevels honed flat (two lines polished).
Anything for which I have to control the depth of cut gets a microbevel of some sort on at least one side (many of my chisels, quite deliberately, have back bevels/ruler trick), gouges in particular I buff to a roughly convex, slippery, steerable shine.

[Stanley Covington]

Before I learned how to sharpen tools from Japanese craftsmen, including a couple of professional sword sharpeners, while a grad student in Japan, I had no idea how sharp a good blade could be. I also had no idea how important it is to get a sharp edge quickly, or how to maintain my blades to maximize sharpening efficiency. I am convinced that secondary bevels, whether on the "beveled edge" of the blade, or on the flat side of the blade (Mr. Charlesworth's ruler technique) are legitimate measures to either obtain an emergency edge quickly or correct a screwed-up blade, but they are not efficient long-term strategies for keeping one's tool's sharp. In fact, I believe them to be an embarrassment in most cases. Certainly, if I had made a habit of using secondary bevels, the old boys that taught me would have mocked me for being like a "woman sharpening her kitchen knife." However, I also learned something about sharpening from academia during my student days. A fellow grad student in another Professor's "research room" did a very scientific study comparing the "cutting efficiency" of plane blades using traditional flat bevels, blades with secondary bevels, and blades with rounded bevels. The edges were sharpened professionally to a defined level of sharpness confirmed by statistical microscopy. Various types of wood and plastic were used in the experiments. I recall hinoki, sugi, and akagashi. The conclusion in his thesis was that the test material did not care about the shape of the blade; all that mattered was the angle of the blade where it met the test piece, and its sharpness. However, the thesis did note that, based on the number of strokes on the stones, the flat bevel was the quickest to reach the required testing sharpness, and the rounded bevel was the most time consuming. In any case, a flat bevel is what I prefer. I will use a secondary bevel to correct a blade that has too low an angle, or the equivalent of the "ruler technique" when the flat of the blade has pits or deep scratches, but under any other circumstances, I would deem such measures to be a waste of time and steel. For what it is worth. Stan

[James Owen]

The only tools that I put a secondary bevel on are mortise chisels; on the rest of my edged tools, a single-angle, flat bevel works fine, and has the virtue of being quick and simple to freehand sharpen.
Like Michael Ray Smith, I also put a convex bevel on my drawknives, and for the very same reasons.

[David Weaver]

Are you guys who are using a single bevel hollow grinding the bevel?

If there are as many people honing a single bevel by hand, it would suggest that maybe there's room for someone to make a manufactured laminated replacement iron. The only current one I can think of for western tools is Tsunesaburo, but it is an iron that's exceptionally fine, hard wearing, but that you can keep in good shape without ever using a coarse stone because it's laminated..and very thin.

[John Coloccia]

Are you guys who are using a single bevel hollow grinding the bevel?

If there are as many people honing a single bevel by hand, it would suggest that maybe there's room for someone to make a manufactured laminated replacement iron. The only current one I can think of for western tools is Tsunesaburo, but it is an iron that's exceptionally fine, hard wearing, but that you can keep in good shape without ever using a coarse stone because it's laminated..and very thin.

I've switched everything to a flat bevel. Everything was hollow ground, but I sold the Tormek and switched to a Worksharp for establishing my bevel, so it's all flat now. For me, the key to working efficiently with a flat bevel is to keep the tool sharp at all times. I hone and strop compulsively. Unless I actually screw up an edge by damaging it, that's sufficient to keep my tools sharp for a long time. Really, it's doing the same thing as a good sharpening, except I'm taking off a tiny amount of material very often, as opposed to taking off a lot of material not so often. That, and my tools are always ridiculously sharp, which makes me happy

I'm going to start adding some Japanese tools to my collection. I could really use some nice Japanese paring chisels. That metal gets even more ridiculously sharp. I wonder how the new powdered metal stuff is?

[Jason Coen]

Are you guys who are using a single bevel hollow grinding the bevel?

On my bench chisels and paring chisels, yes. On plane irons and mortise chisels, no.

[David Weaver]

I wonder how the new powdered metal stuff is?

It has more of a tendency to hold its wire edge at high grit than japanese steel (so it doesn't feel as sharp straight off the stone), and is more picky about the stones that it likes. If you're using green stuff, though, I don't know how much difference it would make. A strop should rip the wire edge off of anything sharpened on a fine stone, and cut it off if it's a loaded strop.

All of the japanese parers I've used (three different brands, none of them extremely expensive) have had more of a silky feel when paring than anything else I've used, like vintage buck chisels, but they are harder and hold up better (maybe ideal for your regimen because of it), and are still easier to sharpen without a grinder because of the lamination.

They are not necessary, but they are total sensory indulgence when they are sharp.

[Chris Griggs]

Totally see where you're coming from John. I have moments where I think about getting some nice japanese chisels just because I get tired of regrinding hollows but am too impatient to want to hone flat bevel of hardened steel.... though I have a couple of my main user chisels that are due for a regrind, perhaps I will let them stay flat and give John's constant stropping a try...

[Peter Hawser]

If anyone is new to sharpening this thread ought to make everything crystal clear

[Tony Wilkins]

If anyone is new to sharpening this thread ought to make everything crystal clear

D'oh - that be me

[Gary Herrmann]

I guess I'm still experimenting.

I have micro (secondary or whatever) bevels on my mortise chisels.

Flat bevels on my LNs.

Hollow ground on my vintage firmers and butt chisels - mostly because they required edge reshaping.

[Dave Hanningan]

There's a guy named Paul Sellers, has been woodworking for over 40 years and does his without micro bevel has a video on Youtube, uses 3 grits of diamond stone and strop with chromium oxide I believe on his smoothing planes and chisels by hand might do it on others blades. And he uses them practically every day. His approach that I like is keep it simple, and get back to work. I assume its more of a practical approach to sharpening for those who work on fine joinery a lot.

[Phillip Dejardin]

There's a guy named Paul Sellers, has been woodworking for over 40 years and does his without micro bevel has a video on Youtube, uses 3 grits of diamond stone and strop with chromium oxide I believe on his smoothing planes and chisels by hand might do it on others blades. And he uses them practically every day. His approach that I like is keep it simple, and get back to work. I assume its more of a practical approach to sharpening for those who work on fine joinery a lot.

I use a modified version of Paul Sellers' method and it works very well. However, his approach effectively produces a micro-bevel. Technically speaking, it's a convex bevel but the effect is basically the same. My method is a hybrid of sorts. I have a primary and secondary bevel (not a micro) and then I finish off with a Sellers' "convex-lift" if you will. Works very well for me. I don't use Charlesworth's ruler trick because I could never get the same results as I did with the convex micro-bevel.

[Tom McMahon]

Flat bevel, convex bevel, secondary, micro it doesn't really matter. What matters is are your tools sharp enough to do what you want them to do. If not try something different until they do. It also shouldn't take more than a few minutes to sharpen a tool and get back to work.

[Jim Matthews]

Find the Paul Sellers videos on this topic.

It was a revelation to me, and MUCH easier to manage.
+1 on the abrasive-charged strop.

http://paulsellers.com/2012/01/sharp...-micro-bevels/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6ykVzL2VAM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvTcReENk9g

My favorite part of this is that I need not regrind my existing steel to get to this.
Following this method, the existing hollow grinds are slowly being lost to
the growing convex bevel that will replace them.