Dowel Jig Question

[Brent Romero]

Good Day Gents,

I am going to buy a dowel jig and I am wondering which is the preferred one. Which do you guys suggest?

[Mike Henderson]

I have one something like this one at Woodcraft. I don't use it much - I bought it to put in the alignment dowels on a table leaf. It worked fine.

A question comes up, why do you want a dowel jig? For joinery, dowels are inferior to other techniques such as M&T or loose tenons. For alignment of panels during glue up, cauls work well. And biscuits are a bit more flexible because you don't have to be absolutely aligned along the boards.

Mike

[Brent Romero]

Thanks for the input. I am building a folding table and the plan calls for a 3/8" dowel glued in one side and free-floating in the other side. The tricky part comes in where the two sides of the table join....I need accuracy. Figured I would buy one and have it for later.

[Peter Quinn]

I have the original "dowel it" self centering jig, similar to the one Mike linked visually, but just four different sized holes. Got it from my Dad when he retired. Works great. Its pretty accurate, easy enough to use, though I honestly use it only very occasionally. There are other more expensive jigs that would let you do frameless cab type joints more easily if that is in your future. This type of jig only does end to edge joints or edge to edge joints, not edge to face. I'd agree with Mike that there are stronger joints, but a good dowel joint is no shame and a lot quicker to make than anything nearly as strong. Well, you could dump $2K on a domino XL set up, and or another $1200 on the regular domino, that would be a bit quicker, but then you would have to make a lot of mortises to justify that. Nice if you are prepared to go that route. Dowels get you a certain combination of cheap, strong and quick and accurate that works for some people in some situations.

Last weekend I made a pair of 8'X5' barn doors using stub tenons and dowel joints. Its a fast and dirty temporary door but it still has to look decent and last several years. I have a slot mortiser with doweling function that sure makes big dowels and alignment easy on multiples, but I was moving 100MPH to get these things made in a single day, had to go in before christmas! So the hand held jig gives real easy set up. No time to invest in setting up a machine for 4 stiles. I'm using 5 1/2" maple pins, fit like a glove even at over 3" deep!

Without seeing the plans your working on its hard to envision what you actually need dowels for on a folding table. I've had better success on edge grain glue ups using cauls and careful clamping, usually a bit of card scraping is all thats required to level the surfaces.

[Dan Rude]

I have the Jig others are showing, but mine has the fixed holes. I also have the simple Rockler Jigs http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...9&site=ROCKLER that work very well for the money. That being said I'm tempted this Christmas to buy the new Jessm Jig at http://www.jessemdirect.com/JessEm_D...ig_p/08350.htm it is on special now. I know Bill Huber reviewed the more expensive model and liked it so much he sold his "Dowel it". This model is supposed to work even better.
Dan

[mreza Salav]

The best built and very good quality doweling jigs are dowelmax (at around $320) and the ones from Jessem (at around $230) http://www.jessem.com/DOWELING_JIG.html

Jessem has recently come up with a new that looks eqaully good at an attractive price of $160 (it was on sale for $99 a few weeks ago) http://www.jessemdirect.com/JessEm_D...master-kit.htm

I have the bigger Jessem jig and am quite happy with it.

[HANK METZ]

The Dowel- It jig works as well as any out there for your purpose, but before I put any money on the table and since your need is currently for one project, I'd play with shop-made jigs first.

- Beachside Hank
Improvise, adapt, overcome; the essence of true craftsmanship.

[Bill Huber]

I guess the first question I have is will this be the only project you plan to use it on?
If so then just about any of the Dowel It type jigs will work just fine, now if you plan to use it for a lot of different projects then a better jig would be the best.

I have had the DowelMax and now have the Jessem, I like using dowels and for me the Jessem was much better and easier to work with. Both jigs work about the same way but the DowelMax requires shims were the Jessem does not when using different thickness of wood, which I really like.

Both jigs use a reference end and surface for placing the jig which is very accurate.

I will have to disagree with Mike on dowels, I think they are very good for all types of joinery and for panels when used with a good jig are great for alignment, spot on every time. Dowels are much faster then other methods and the strengths is just about as good, from the testing that I have seen.

Here is my write up on the Jessem. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...m+doweling+jig

[pat warner]

Moreover, Bill, my hero, Krenov, used them. They must be good!

[Myk Rian]

A question comes up, why do you want a dowel jig? For joinery, dowels are inferior to other techniques such as M&T or loose tenons.

It doesn't matter the "Why". Just which one.

The Dowel- It jig works as well as any out there for your purpose,

I have one. It works well, and is USA Michigan made.

[Mike Henderson]

I will have to disagree with Mike on dowels, I think they are very good for all types of joinery and for panels when used with a good jig are great for alignment, spot on every time. Dowels are much faster then other methods and the strengths is just about as good, from the testing that I have seen.

The problem with dowels for alignment when gluing up a panel is that the dowels have to all be perfectly aligned. If one dowel is just a fraction of an inch displaced (sideways) in one board, the two boards will not go together. Biscuits and Dominos allow you to make the slot a bit wider so that when to go to put the boards together they will still fit even if one or more of the slots or mortises are just a bit offset to the side.

Dowel joints are not as strong as M&T joints that will fit into the same space. You can easily calculate the equivalent long grain-to-long grain surface area between a dowel joint and an M&T joint and see that the M&T joint has greater long grain-to-long grain surface area (I've done this in previous postings here about the strength of dowel joints). Finally, many people have had lots of experience with chairs that came apart at the back of the seat because the dowels used came loose. I've repaired many, many of those chairs, but never a chair with a M&T joint.

I think a better statement might be that dowels can provide acceptable strength in certain joints, but not will not be as strong as a M&T joint.

Mike

[Prashun Patel]

I owned the Dowelmax and it was worth the price. If I were to buy a new doweling jig, I'd get the Jessem. The Dowelmax was incredibly accurate. It is so well machined, the alignment problems Mike notes were never an issue - even when gluing up wide panels with dowels indexed every 6" over a 3-4 foot range.

If you have the money, a Domino is worthy of consideration. It can do everything the dowel jigs and a biscuit joiner can do. It's a lot of money, but it's more flexible and faster (you don't have to commandeer your drill, and the depth and angle stops are integrated and pre-set.

I will say that I found the dowelmax marginally even more accurate than the Domino. When gluing up panels, the dowelmax locked them in perfectly. With the Domino, there is some (very) minor slop that still benefits from vertical clamping over the joint. I never had to do that with the Dowelmax. I chalk this up to the fact that a drill and very good brad point bit are cleaner and gentler to bore than the wider mortises of a Domino or Mortisepal.

[Bill Huber]

The problem with dowels for alignment when gluing up a panel is that the dowels have to all be perfectly aligned. If one dowel is just a fraction of an inch displaced (sideways) in one board, the two boards will not go together.
Mike

Have you ever use a DowelMax or the Jessem jig, they both are very very accurate. I have made some large panels, 20" wide with 5 boards and never had to sand them down to a misalignment.

When I look at things I have use my doweling jigs on I just can not see doing it any better with M&T or biscuits.

As to the strength that is a debate that will go on forever, I think it is all in how the test are done and who does them.

[Mike Henderson]

Have you ever use a DowelMax or the Jessem jig, they both are very very accurate. I have make some large panels, 20" wide with 5 boards and never had to sand them down to a misalignment.

When I look at things I have use my doweling jigs on I just can not see doing it any better with M&T or biscuits.

As to the strength that is a debate that will go on forever, I think it is all in how the test are done and who does them.

The misalignment is not in the vertical direction, it's in the horizontal direction. The cheapest self centering dowel jig can center a dowel so that the boards will be aligned (flat) when you glue up. The problem is in the other direction. If one dowel hole is out of place in the horizontal direction, the two boards will not go together. Other techniques for aligning boards allow for horizontal misalignment. For example, when you use a Domino, most people will put one domino in without widening the mortises. This domino is the alignment (horizontal) domino. All of the other mortises are a bit wider than the loose tenon so that if you were just a bit off when you made the mortise, the two boards will still go together.

The only people who can believe that dowels are as strong as a M&T joint are those who have drunk the dowel KoolAid (are religious about it). It's pretty easy to prove mathematically that you have more long grain-to-long grain surface area with a M&T joint. And long experience with both dowels and M&T joints have shown the relative strength of the two joints.

Mike

[Bill Huber]

The misalignment is not in the vertical direction, it's in the horizontal direction. The cheapest self centering dowel jig can center a dowel so that the boards will be aligned (flat) when you glue up. The problem is in the other direction. If one dowel hole is out of place in the horizontal direction, the two boards will not go together. Other techniques for aligning boards allow for horizontal misalignment. For example, when you use a Domino, most people will put one domino in without widening the mortises. This domino is the alignment (horizontal) domino. All of the other mortises are a bit wider than the loose tenon so that if you were just a bit off when you made the mortise, the two boards will still go together.

The only people who can believe that dowels are as strong as a M&T joint are those who have drunk the dowel KoolAid (are religious about it). It's pretty easy to prove mathematically that you have more long grain-to-long grain surface area with a M&T joint. And long experience with both dowels and M&T joints have shown the relative strength of the two joints.

Mike

I will ask the same question I ask in the other reply, Have you ever tried one of the jigs, the DowelMax or the Jessem?

I can understand that with a jig like you are talking about the spacing could be off really easy but with jigs I am talking about they are spot on.