Specific CV1800/Oneida SDG questions...

[Michael Koons]

Guys,

I've read all the posts on the DC systems and wanted the opinions of owners, especially of the Clear Vue unit. I know there have been a lot of comments but many of the relative threads I read were 3 or 4 years old and timing is a critical part of my question below.

I'll give you my thinking just so you know where I'm coming from.

I live at 6,000' above sea level, moving to 10,000' in a few years. This actually has an impact on this decision because it moved me from a V-3000 to a 3 HP Super Dust Gorilla as airflow is impacted. It seems to me that I will be safe with the CV1800 because of the 5 HP motor and 15" impeller.

I like the construction of the Oneida better but it is $300 more and on a 4-5 week back order and I'd prefer not to wait for a system as I have the time to install it now or in a few weeks.

My concern with the CV is the DIY aspect and the overall durability. The DIY part scares me, not because of the assembly, but I'm concerned I could mess up the balance of the impeller or some other critical component. I'm also concerned about longevity. I'm to the point where when I do buy tools for the shop, I want that tool to be the last one of those types I ever buy. I will pay for quality and longevity if I feel it's worth it.

So my question to CV owners out there is... How's the longevity of your units? Are you comfortable your unit will last you 10, 20 or more years? I don't have this concern about Oneida just because of the nature of the construction and quality of the parts. But I don't want to waste the $300 that could go towards my ductwork either.

Any comments either way are appreciated.

[David Kumm]

I'll let owners of CV speak to durability but keep a couple of things in mind. The altitude correction factor at 10000 ft is about 1.5. If your V system pulled 840 cfm at 7.4" sp and you want the same flow at 10000 ft you need a blower capable of 840 at 11.1 or so. It takes the 5 hp high vac to get you there and likely the CV max with the 16" blower. I didn't do the math so I might be wrong but get a correction table and verify. The motor will probably end up oversized given the thin air but altitude can also mean special insulation to extra size might be needed. I'd ask specifically about the altitude for both the motor and flow with whoever you purchase the system from. Dave

[Mark Kornell]

I have a CVMAX - same motor as the CV1800, just a slightly larger cyclone unit and impeller, giving a bit more CFM. The DIY aspect of the install was not an issue - the parts are designed to line up properly, and as the impeller attaches directly to the motor shaft, you can't get it out of balance. And there's no way to assemble so there's interference.

In terms of assembly, I was able to assemble it without help. Took about 4 hours, including building the brackets. Might have been a bit easier with an assistant when mounting the motor, but not critical.

There's a massive amount of torque when that 5 hp motor starts up (any 5 hp motor, really), so I'm considering adding some extra bracing. Hasn't been an issue so far, but I'd like to ensure that continues to not be a problem.

The unit is only 2 months old so I can't comment on longevity, but I don't foresee an issue. The PTEG is tough stuff - takes impact and won't abrade away over time. Won't rust, either, so may outlive a steel unit. Long term UV degrade isn't a factor as my unit is inside.

[Ralph Butts]

Hi Michael, I have only had my CV1800 just about 2 years now and it said in my garage for a year before I assembled (partially) it and hung it on the wall. Assembly is not bad, I did take the easy way out since I am local to ClearVue and had them put together as much of the unit as possible and transported those sub assemblies in my truck. I am in the process of moving so I am now disassembling and re-installing in my new shop as time allows around work, the holidays and moving into a new home. As for longevity the machine designa and manufacturing is well thought out in my opinion. I can't see you having a problem with the balance of the impellar agreeing with Mark's noted points. I do not see any reason I should not have this machine for 10-20 or more years using it for the purpose it is intended. I purchased my cyclone with the same objective as you in mind. I did not intend to have to purchase another cyclone again. I have not been disappointed to date.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I will respond concerning the Oneida 3 HP Super Dust Gorilla. I have one. I installed the thing by myself EXCEPT I got help when it came time to put the motor and fan assembly on the rest of the unit. It didn't take long to assemble the entire unit......just a few hours.

If you feel their is a quality difference (I'd recommend you see both before making your decision) then waiting 4-5 weeks and paying $300 more is worth it. Again....I'd advise looking at both with your own two eyes. I'd also talk with engineers at both companies to see what they would recommend for the elevations you are expecting to use the machine. In a once in a lifetime purchase, I would research it completely so there would be no chance for buyers remorse in the future.

I use mine regularly with no problems and the quality is there.

[Jim Neeley]

Michael,

I'll throw in my $0.02 here.. I purchased a CV1800 but with the larger 16" impeller that normally comes on the CVMax, after talking with Bill Pentz. I did it for additional air; if I were moving to 10,000 ft I'd do it to mitigate the impact of the thin air.

YMMV..

Jim

[Stephen Cherry]

If you feel their is a quality difference (I'd recommend you see both before making your decision) then waiting 4-5 weeks and paying $300 more is worth it. .

I was getting ready to say the same thing.

I have the 3hp oneida also, and it is built like a tank. I've seen the clearview, and it looks OK, but I think it is fair to say that the Oneida is more robustly constructed. THis may or may not make a difference in operation.

[Russ Massery]

I have a 6 year old Clearview happy to report it's preformed flawlessly.

[mreza Salav]

I have a CV. IMO the CVMax is going to be stronger DC (more suction) than a 3HP Oneida. The advantages of CV vs Oneida IMO are: bigger surface area of filter and I think an overall better
cyclone design. I do agree that unit itself may not be as durable as the metal ones in the following sense: if you hit the exposed edges of the CV unit at the bottom of cyclone or at the intake edge with something hard while moving it perhaps it could break or crack, but I don't see how the durability could be an issue as the motor itself is also a good quality motor.

[Alan Lightstone]

Can't respond directly to the CV, but I have the 5HP Oneida and it is totally built like a tank. Once set up (takes two people for sure) it's been solid and trouble-free. And it sucks like nobody's business. Considering the altitude, this might be a consideration. The way I looked at it, it was a cry once purchase for me. I'll never need a bigger or better model.

[Paul Wunder]

Another happy Clearvue CV1800 owner (2 years). Flawless operation, easy assembly, no concern about parts quality. Fan is heavy duty and was perfectly balanced on arrival, No vibration. The usual cyclone whooshing noise. Powerful suction. I like the double sized filter area (600 sq feet) have not replaced filters. Practically no dust even reaches the filters. The motor is a heavy duty 5 HP Leeson

[joe pezza]

Michael, I just purchased a cv max myself, and the decision for me came down to what unit was gonna give me the best cfm, fpm and filtration. I set up a air quality monitor first, looked at the readings while I was working, and ordered the cv max. Pentzs website is very compelling, and since I have a basement shop, that did it for me. I am now setting up the machine and duct work, which I think is so important to get it performing as intended. The goal of 4000 fpm or better at each major machine is what really sold me the cvmax. BTW, the setup for the cv max is a lot easier than even the website shows. I also upgraded the filters to the hepa. I also purchased a fpm meter to confirm performance.
merry christmas
joe

[Mike Goetzke]

I've had the CV1800 for about 4-years now in my garage shop. Due to the noise either model produces almost everyone encases them in an insulated of some sort. So if durability of the unit is an issue (metal -vs- plastic) it becomes a non-issue if enclosed. I let my motor sit in ambient air but there are ways to cool the motor if mounted inside an enclosure. I have mine mounted from the ceiling with two high strength threaded rods and vibration isolators - works like a champ!

Mike

[David Kumm]

Michael, if you do the altitude correction the numbers come out on the high end of 5 hp. The oneida runs a 15" impeller, the CV max a 16". There is no substitute for diameter and with then air the motor won't overamp. The Oneida metal work is very well done. The clearvue separates fines better so it also depends on your machinery. If you only generate coarse dust and chips separation isn't an issue and any filter, spun bond, Hepa, nano will filter what you create. Get what will clear the filters easiest if you overfill. If you plan to drum or widebelt sand, look at the CV. Durability is a negative if the unit doesn't work well for your needs and you have to wait for either it or your lungs to fail to replace. If you go the Oneida route I would ask them if they could put a 16" impeller in their 2000 system to compensate. If not I'd think hard about whether the thin air will give you the cfm you need. Again dependent on the machine. Some have good internal channeling some not. A 1.5X sp conversion needs impeller diameter. The CV cyclone was developed for the 15" impeller so the separation efficiency on the max isn't generally quite as good but in your case the thin air will deliver less so the regular cyclone with the 7" inlet would work. I would guess the 7" main would be the way to go at that altitude. 8 is too much and 6" would further increase resistance and the altitude is doing that all ready so the piping design becomes critical. At 10,000 ft I'd need the larger cyclone and an oxygen tank for me. Dave

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Several of the CV guys have mentioned the torque on startup. That can fatigue mounting surfaces and fasteners over time. I don't know how the CV absorbs the torque, but all machines do in different ways. Think a hand router vs a shaper. The mass of a machine can help. Being a SDG owner, I can say that it is smooth and drama free on startup and in operation. The heavy welded assembly facilitates that.

I'm a little skeptical that the CV separates fine dust better. Not sure how the data to prove that could not be influenced by too many variables, like even sanding grit size and wear, total airflow at the time the dust hit the cyclone and ducting. Pretty easy to skew that data to a favorite too. My completely subjective observation is that I got an amazingly tiny amount of dust out of my filter the time I cleaned it. Yep, once in two years, like an oz. of dust. Cyclones are just a good idea, and any that are commercially available have stood the test of capitalism at least and are probably going to be surprisingly good.

I bet either will be more fun to work around from your mountain top