Toning down the grain in red oak

[Jeff R. King]

I'm getting ready to finish my gun cabinet I built out of red oak and would like to tone down the grain in the oak. I've been reading about toner and tinted shellac. Looks like there are quite a few options so I'm just looking for some experience with this.

I'd like the final color to be close to this piece but am not too picky. Any help is appreciated.

image.jpg

[Jim Becker]

Jeff, for the future, try to remember that the very first step in finishing a project is choosing the material. You want to select wood that has the color and grain pattern than best suits your requirements as "covering up" those things after the fact makes your work much, much harder. Red Oak has a large pore structure and so much of it is flat-sawn, causing "big" grain patterns that are harder to control. If oak is the right look but you want something sedate from a grain pattern perspective, you'll want rift or QS material to keep things straight and manageable in the looks department. Or use an alternative species with a small pore structure and focus mostly on color.

That said, to get your open oak grain to be less noticeable you'll want to stick with a dye for base color (avoid pigment stain as it will highlight the grain) fill the grain with a clear pore filler before moving on to additional finishing steps. You can use toners and even a gel stain over that to "cloud things up" and further deemphasize the nature of oak. Please be sure to work things out on scrap from your project first. Do NOT experiment on your actual project. And document each test so you can duplicate what you decide you like on the real project piece.

[Jeff R. King]

Thanks a ton. I'm pretty new to this and haven't worked out a good way to get wood - I don't have a planer. I've been buying my stuff from the big box stores which leaves me with not too much choice. Also, all of the wood in our house has some type of finish hiding the large open poor grain areas in red oak.

Once again, thank you!

[Jamie Schmitz]

I am not so sure that the piece you posted has been colored other than age.Most oil finishes will amber out over the years. There is a stain called "aged oak" that just might work,dilute the heck out of it and stain it very slowly.You can also just add the stain to your finish coats but this is sorta tricky but a good choice also,because the grain won't have stain in it.

[Rich Engelhardt]

try to remember that the very first step in finishing a project is choosing the material. You want to select wood that has the color and grain pattern than best suits your requirements as "covering up" those things after the fact makes your work much, much harder

It would be nice if there was some way to make that one sentance a permanent fixture of this forum.

[Scott T Smith]

Jeff, as usual Jim Becker's advice is right on target. You definitely want to stay away from either a stain or a gel stain, as these will accumulate in the pores. A dye is a much better choice.

Regarding using an oil finish, I just built some shop shelves out of red oak and used an oil mix of 1/3 BLO, 1/3 tung oil, and 1/3 D-limonene. The color turned out similar to the cabinet in your photo. In the photo below, the side brackets on the bottom shelf are probably the most similar to the red oak that you purchased from the BORG. The remaining red oak that i used was from my "shop wood" stash and was spalted (which turns darker when finished with oil.



Lathe shelf.jpg

[John TenEyck]

Jeff, as usual Jim Becker's advice is right on target. You definitely want to stay away from either a stain or a gel stain, as these will accumulate in the pores. A dye is a much better choice.

Well, yes and no, Scott. If you read Jim's post further you'll see where he talked about using a gel stain after the pores are filled and the wood sealed. Used then, a gel stain does a great job of minimizing grain instead of highlighting it.

John

[Scott T Smith]

Well, yes and no, Scott. If you read Jim's post further you'll see where he talked about using a gel stain after the pores are filled and the wood sealed. Used then, a gel stain does a great job of minimizing grain instead of highlighting it.

John

John, you are indeed correct - I should have read Jim's post in more detail.

[Jim Becker]

Well, yes and no, Scott. If you read Jim's post further you'll see where he talked about using a gel stain after the pores are filled and the wood sealed. Used then, a gel stain does a great job of minimizing grain instead of highlighting it.

John

Yup...I mentioned the gel stain as a later step once the pore were no longer a factor. Used in this manner, it's more of a 'toner'...

[Darius Ferlas]

I use toning whenever I don't use clear only.

This is my process:

• 1 light coat of 2# cut shellac sprayed
• light scuffing to get a smooth surface, depending on the wood species I use 320 to 600G
• mix 1 part of 2# cut shellac to 2 parts of alcohol based NGR stain and spray that as much as needed to achieve the final color depth and tone. Sometimes I can achieve the final result in one session for each piece, other times I will do a round robin - the first piece is totally dry before I finish the last piece.
• I don't sand or scuff between those coats
• 6 to 10 skinny coats of WB clear finish, sometimes I'll use oil if temps are too low for WB
• occasionally very light (1200G or above) scuffing of the final coat

The entire schedule can be done in one day

note:

• oil based top coat finishes may darken the surface
• because shellac and NGR stain dries VERY fast, if the piece is somewhat complex in it's shape and joinery, you may not get a second chance if you botch it, so make sure you practice before you commit