Which Face Plate screws?

[Brian Kent]

What screw material do I want and what brand?

I am using the standard screw-on faceplate that comes with the Delta 46-460.
I am ordering from McFeeley's, which I have done before, but just got lost in the infinite variety of choices.

I want the strongest self-tapping square drive screw, #8, 3/4".

(I just broke off a home-depot 1-1/4" spax screw inside the bowl I was turning)

I know, easy question, but I don't remember which material or brand is strongest.

Thanks.

Brian

[Roger Chandler]

Brian........whatever you do .......don't use drywall screws! I like to use a panhead wood/ metal screw on some of my faceplates that do not have the countersink in them.......better hold...I also like to pre-drill my holes.....

...for those that do have a bit of a countersink, then it is advisable to use a bugle head screw........one that is beefier than a number 8.......try at least a #10 about 1.75 inches.....you want at least an inch or a little more into the wood if possible.......on smaller blanks it takes away some of the size of the finished turning , that is why I got a chuck........if you don't already have one, it should be on your wish list for sure!

[Brian Kent]

Thanks. I do have a nice chuck. My last two bowls have broken off at the chuck. One was gripped from the outside and another pushing out from a recess. It could be just bad coincidence with cracks. I have also tried starting with a spur drive, making the foot, then turning it around for the chuck, but the spur drive just spins.

These are also pretty small bowls - 6-8" across and 2-4 " deep.

[G. Brad Schmidt]

Though not a square drive, I've had pretty good luck with the blue KwikTap concrete screws at HD.
Those buggers are tough!

[Brian Kent]

Roger, you got me thinking that maybe the issue is I need some more "learnin'" on the whole topic of mounting the bowls for turning.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, you got me thinking that maybe the issue is I need some more "learnin'" on the whole topic of mounting the bowls for turning.

That thought had occurred to me, Brian.......the shape of your tenon needs to match the shape of the jaws of your chuck, so they mate up well. Then you need to have the shoulder [the part where the top of the jaws are against the wood blank] to be square [90 degrees] to your chuck jaws so they will seat correctly and run true. Last, you need to make your tenon length to not bottom out in the bottom of your jaws.....there needs to be a little daylight underneath that tenon on the bottom .....that way the weight and the hold of the blank is being held correctly by the jaws and not the bottom and it will also help the blank to run true............all these steps are indeed important..........hope you will give the chuck another go, and when shaping the tenon shoot for a really good match to your jaws.

One more thing........the diameter of your tenon needs to be just a smidgen bigger than the closed position of your jaws....say about 1/8" bigger..........that way you will get the full holding power of your jaws......if you jaws have wide gaps in them when around the tenon, you are actually only holding with the ends of the jaws [points] and are losing at least 50% of the holding power and that can make a blank come out of the chuck with a catch......

Hope this helps Brain!

[Brian Kent]

Thanks Roger.

I only recently got the info about depth of tenon. I used to make the tenon too long and it would bottom out. Now I am making them a bit short so the jaws register to the bottom of the bowl.

I had forgotten about making the tenon just slightly bigger than closed diameter of the jaws. I have not been doing that. I think that made and poor grip and may have helped the recent one to crack.

When you are first turning the bowl, do you use screws or a spur drive or something else to start (while turning the tenon to later put in the jaws)?

Brian

[Dennis Ford]

I use #10 x 1" sheet metal screws with hex heads for side grain orientation blanks. This puts just over 1/2" of screw into the wood and minimizes waste of wood. Nothing wrong with a chuck but a faceplate with plenty of screws is a stronger hold. Strength of the screws is not really an issue unless you over-torque them when tightening, ordinary screws are stronger than wood.

[Roger Chandler]

Thanks Roger.

I only recently got the info about depth of tenon. I used to make the tenon too long and it would bottom out. Now I am making them a bit short so the jaws register to the bottom of the bowl.

I had forgotten about making the tenon just slightly bigger than closed diameter of the jaws. I have not been doing that. I think that made and poor grip and may have helped the recent one to crack.

When you are first turning the bowl, do you use screws or a spur drive or something else to start (while turning the tenon to later put in the jaws)?

Brian

You can do it either way......my best luck has been to use a steb center for drive, rather that the spur center......sometimes the spur center just rotates and drills into the blank and loses its drive.......the worm screw is a good way if you have solid wood and not punky stuff........make sure you have tailstock support with your live center and watch your speed until the chuck is secured to the tenon.......for a 8" bowl I would try to turn about 600 rpm to 800......till I got the hang of it pretty well.

[Clint Baxter]

[QUOTE=Brian Kent;2028160]Thanks Roger.

I only recently got the info about depth of tenon. I used to make the tenon too long and it would bottom out. Now I am making them a bit short so the jaws register to the bottom of the bowl.

I had forgotten about making the tenon just slightly bigger than closed diameter of the jaws. I have not been doing that. I think that made and poor grip and may have helped the recent one to crack.

When you are first turning the bowl, do you use screws or a spur drive or something else to start (while turning the tenon to later put in the jaws)?

I use one of the chuck plates designed by Jerry Marcantel. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/content....-a-Chuck-Plate

Work great and very unlikely you'll spin one of these out

Clint

[Roger Chandler]

"I use one of the chuck plates designed by Jerry Marcantel. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/content....-a-Chuck-Plate

Work great and very unlikely you'll spin one of these out" Clint

That is a really good option Clint......I have been meaning to make one of those myself, but just haven't gotten a round2it yet!

[Thomas Canfield]

If you are doing green wood, then the tenon needs to be at least 1/4" larger than the minimum chuck diameter to allow for truing up the tenon after it has dried. I try to leave about 1/16" + clearance between tenon end and bottom of chuck. If you are breaking a tenon on a 6 -8" bowl 2 to 4" deep, then it sounds like you need to check out the quality of wood. Expansion into a recess does require solid wood and is more subject to failure with a catch. For cross grain, you should be using a push cut, from outside to center, which puts the cutting force toward the center and reduces the moment arm to break a tenon or recess and less likely to have a catch. Using a pull cut increases the moment and also the chance for a catch. You can add thin CA to the root of a tenon or recess to gain some additional strength also.

[Prashun Patel]

Brian-
I use the McFeely #8, 1 1/4" zinc plated sq drive screws. IMHO, you don't need a self-tapper; I've never had a split and I never drill pilots. FWIW, I too don't trust the Spax. I've had #10 spax screws snap before. Also, the spax recesses cam out quickly. The McFeely's can be used and reused many times.

I used to snap tenons too. It was due to two things: 1) not properly shaping the tenon; my Nova G3 requires a slight dovetail. However, the REAL reason was 2) bad technique. Once my catches reduced, the snapped tenons have become a non-issue. And I pretty much ONLY turn green wood, with bowls in the 10-12" range.

Out of curiosity, what type of wood are you turning? I also notice that when I turn the tenon on the pith side of the blank, it can be prone to crack.

[Brian Kent]

Prashun, I have mainly been practicing on my sycamore firewood pile. There are a lot of cracks, though I can find a chunk of wood on the non split side of the pith. The one I tried today gripping out from inside the recess was a piece that you sent me. I think it was cherry. Now it is a little shallower bowl blank .

I just practiced on some more sycamore and the proper sized tenon helped a lot. It has a couple of cracks in the bowl that I am touching up with super glue before sanding. It may or may not survive as a bowl, but the technique I was practicing worked well.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I will show some of the screws I have used for years, still have them, they are good quality Robertson screws and 1" long, on sound side-grain wood that is plenty long enough.

Trying to use longer screws can have the screws break off easily, my faceplate is 1/2" thick plate that was faced off, so a hair thinner, the holes are relieved on the bottom so any upheaving of the wood doesn't lift the faceplate.

Top is countersunk and the screws fit right in there, so my screws do go in the wood 1/2", they are straight bodied screws, not like a tapered wood screw.

Now if you think 1/2" isn't deep enough, try to pull a screw out of the wood that is in there 1/2" deep with a faceplate keeping the wood down, and I bet you will break the screw, so why go any deeper than that ??

Having turning experience, I have rough turned blanks that where held with 3/4" screws, meaning just 1/4" deep in the wood, and I know that these blanks where held solid and safely, but you do need sound wood for that and good screws.

After roughing the blanks outside, where now the blank is balanced and much lighter, I will use my chuck and almost always use a recess, if the bowl is shaped properly, there is much more wood and strength in the recess than a round stub sticking out to hold it, and that is my experience after better than a half century of turning, and big bowls from heavy pieces of wood, if it counts for anything.

Start with good screws .............Faceplate installed ..............Faceplate the only hold ......recess clean and square.....Stronghold chuck solid hold ........finished roughout........on wheelbarrow wheel
faceplate screws.jpg Faceplate installed.jpg faceplate is the only hold.jpg Recess square and clean.jpg held solidly by stronghold chuck.jpg finished roughout.jpg bowl hung on wheelbarrow.jpg