Used vs. new tablesaws?

[Phillip Gregory]

Thanks for the advice. I was already leaning towards getting used over new, this is what I will try to do as long as I can find something decent within a suitable time frame. I have been looking on CL and eBay and the classifieds here for a while. The one thing working against me for finding a used saw would be that I live in southeast South Dakota and there is very little available locally. I wouldn't be opposed to driving the 3 hours to Omaha or 4 hours to Minneapolis/St. Paul or Des Moines but it would have to be pretty close to a "You Suck" deal and be a high probability of me actually purchasing the saw to justify doing so. I have to do some traveling over the next month and will scour the listings during that time. If I find something I will jump on it, else I will probably go ahead and look at new saws and be done with it.

[Joe Jensen]

I went through this progression;

1970-1984 - Dad's very old 1940s Sears Craftsman, very beat up, terrible fence, no guards or riving knife
1984-1990 - Used 1970s Unisaw. Good saw with very early Biesemeyer fence (locally made at that time in Mesa AZ) no guards or riving knife
1990-2006 - New PM66 made in USA, nice saw. Wanted left tilt and liked the saw a lot. Terrible guard, tossed it, no riving knife
2006-2009 - New Sawstop Professional 5HP. Fantastic saw, much heavier than the Unisaw or PM66, great riving knife and guard. Ironically with the Sawstop I used the guard all the time, first time I ever used a Table Saw Guard.
2009-current - Felder sliding saw and shaper combo. Great riving knife and guard but no blade stop tech.

My learnings;
1) I would not buy a saw again without a riving knife and a riving knife mounted guard. They work great and don't get in the way. After 30 years of sawing without a guard I'm not willing to use a tablesaw now without a guard.
2) The Sawstop industrial is a lot better designed and built saw than the PM66/Unisaw/Griz cabinet saws. With all other cabinet saws, the trunion system must be perfectly machined if the blade will stay parallel to the miter slots at all blade heights and angles. This is very complex machining and hard to do. My 1970s Unisaw was ok and so was the USA made PM66. But with most cabinet saws all you can do is shim the top to the trunion to average the error. What you will find with most saws is you set the blade parallel to the miter slot with the blade all the way up and at 90 degrees. Then tilt to 45 and it will no longer be parallel. Also, set the blade 1/2 way up at 90 and it will not be parallel. Some saws are terrible. The Sawstop has adjustments built into the trunion to adjust these errors to zero. Very nice. It also has gas struts to make raising and lowering and tilting very easy. Great saw, in a different tier than the PM66 and Unisaw.
3) Chinese tools. I'm at a point in life were I won't buy a Chinese tool again. They are built on price point first and things like the trunion precision, quality of cast iron, etc are a distant second. If I could only afford a cheap chinese tool I'd only buy locally and I'd measure every important aspect (table flatness isn't a big deal to me) before buying.
4) A large Euro slider is yet another level of saw. Knowing what I have learned and buying a saw today I'd buy a used industrial slider for $2K+ before I'd buy another cabinet saw. (If I had the space)
5) When I have more shop space I'll buy another Sawstop as there are some things that are easier to do on a cabinet saw than on a slider.

[Erik Christensen]

Used is a label that covers a whole range of histories. A saw 'used' by a hobbyist that maybe has 10-20 hours of run time a year is one thing, a saw from a commercial shop that runs it 1-2,000 hrs/year is going to have a much higher wear factor. Personally the only table saw that I would buy from a commercial shop is a mid-level + euro-slider and there is no way I have the room nor power distribution for that level of equipment.

[Greg Portland]

Hello, new to the site and looking to get back into woodworking now that I am finally getting settled down and get to have my own shop for the first time. I will be needing to get a tablesaw and know that I want a good cabinet saw as I will be making furniture. I am very much a "buy what you really need the first time and then forget about it" kind of person and don't like working with cruddy tools. What I have in mind is something along the lines of a 3-5 hp 10" cabinet saw with a GOOD fence system.

IMO, buy used. I was in your same shoes 10 years ago, had the same philosophy and now am finding that I use my table saw less and less. Our methods of work change as does the available room in our shop. I've been strongly considering selling my table saw and using my large bandsaw & (good) chopsaw for cutting + Festool TS55 for sheetgoods. I use handtools for final fitting of everything. Again, this is from a hobby perspective...

[Mike Henderson]

And there are plenty of tools in our shops that can hurt us just the same. Common sense and safe practices will always be viable alternatives.

Yes, there are. But on the table saw, we have access to safety features that are not available on most other tools. I've read so many stories of people who worked on a table saw for 30 or 40 years and then cut a finger off. They're called accidents for a reason. Even when people use common sense and safe practices, accidents happen. And on the table saw those accidents can be life changing.

For a one time payment, I can get significant protection - that if I make a mistake, I won't pay for it for the rest of my life.

If the rest of my tools had similar safety features available, I'd buy tools with those features.

Mike

[johnny means]

I bought my Sawstop ICS BSN a few years ago. Cost me somewhere north of 4K. I'm not recommending that you buy one. But , I got to say, I have never wished I had bought something else, it is always a pleasure to use, and I doubt I ever will regret the decision. In fact, the day may come when I give myself a real pat on the back for buying it. I doubt that I think about the price more than twice a year. I don't miss the money. My point is with long term investments like this, I believe one should get what they really want for as little as possible, but not make price a deciding factor. Of course, we should be reasonable. If your on a fixed income of $1500 a month, a $6000 machine may be a little ridiculous.

It sounds to me like you have the option to get any cabinet saw you want. So go for it and don't look back.

BTW, I highly recommend a Sawstop

[scott spencer]

Thanks for the advice. I was already leaning towards getting used over new, this is what I will try to do as long as I can find something decent within a suitable time frame. ... I have to do some traveling over the next month and will scour the listings during that time. If I find something I will jump on it, else I will probably go ahead and look at new saws and be done with it.

Your approach sounds reasonable to me. If a great deal a nice used saw comes along, buy it. If not, there's no shame in buying a new saw.

[Jim O'Dell]

Four years ago, I decided I wanted a table saw. I watched Ebay and Craigs List and the newspaper for a used one. The only one I saw advertised during that year that was appealing was a Platinum Unisaw. But the guy wanted 1500 bucks for it, and didn't want to come down. I lost interest in it. Don't know if he got the money he wanted for it or not. And this is in a big market, Dallas/Fort Worth.
Three years ago, I set out to save for a new one. I decided if I was going to spend that much money, it had to have a riving knife. I knew I couldn't afford a SawStop, or the Canadian made General, (saw the PM 2000 at a woodworking show but was not impressed...don't know why) but knew I wanted a cabinet saw (since that MiniMax slider was out of the question money wise ) . I watched sales, I pinched pennies, and I ended up with just the right amount of money to get the Grizzly G0691 right after Christmas 2 years ago. This saw is built on the same trunnion design that the older style Uni had, with modifications for a riving knife. So I knew it was a tried and true basic design. Also, the old style 1023 used it and had great reviews. I love it! Two years old now, and it has developed some scratches in the once pristine top. Ticked me off when I did it, but it doesn't keep it from doing it's job.
I would have bought used and been very happy with the saw, had I found one that was in the right price range for used. I hope you have better luck than I did. If at the end of the time that only you can decide you are willing to wait you haven't found what you want, give Grizzly another look. I helped a fellow Creeker set up his new 1023RL. It is very nice. I still would go for the 691 for ME, but both are quality saws. Jim.

[Gary Muto]

I voted new. If I was buying today, I would require the saw to have a riving knife. The newer saws have better guards too that are more likely to be left on the machine. If I found a good used saw with a riving knife and guard with dust collection, I would consider that as well.

FYI, my current saw has a splitter and I upgraded the guard to a SharkGuard.

[Ronald Blue]

I am not opposed to used but realistically you can look and look and still come up empty. As Jim mentioned it can be frustrating. It seems all the deals posted in the classifieds here are always far away whether a fellow creeker or something on CL. New is probably the best option unless he doesn't care how long he waits.

[John TenEyck]

This would be an easy choice for me. The only new saw I would buy would be a Sawstop. That's the only one with a technology shift that justifies the price of a new saw, IMHO. In all other cases, I would buy a used saw. FWIW, I love my 1950 Unisaw with a VegaPro fence. It is such a smooth running machine and a true pleasure to use. And I find it quite humorous to see others posting about the necessity of having a riving knife, while in every picture I see of people's saws there is never a guard on them. If that sounds like how you work, then there's really only one choice of what to buy.

John

[Gary Muto]

"snip" ... And I find it quite humorous to see others posting about the necessity of having a riving knife, while in every picture I see of people's saws there is never a guard on them. If that sounds like how you work, then there's really only one choice of what to buy.

John

That's exactly why I like a riving knife. Even if I don't use the guard the knife is there. you never have to think about it unless you are dadoing. I have the next best thing which is a Shark Guard that is easily removable and comes with 3 easily changed splitters. I totally agree that a Sawstop would be high on my list for a cabinet saw. Then I start thinking about Euro Sliders.

[Paul McGaha]

I voted used. I think I should add that I live in a suburb of Washington DC, and our local craigslist routinely has really nice used cabinet saws listed for sale at fair prices. Really easy to get a nice used woodworking tool.

I appreciate Joe Jensen's post #17. On this used saw I'd have an overarm blade guard like the Biesmeyer for both the safety of it and the dust collection from the top of the saw.

If a new saw, I'd guess I'd do a Powermatic PM-2000 or maybe a slider from Hammer.

PHM

[Matt Meiser]

This would be an easy choice for me. The only new saw I would buy would be a Sawstop. That's the only one with a technology shift that justifies the price of a new saw, IMHO. In all other cases, I would buy a used saw.

Pretty much how I feel, BUT, if I could only spend in the $1500 range and was afraid of a rehab project, I'd buy a Grizzly G0690 based on positive reviews and previous good experiences with Grizzly myself. Most of the other new saws are from companies that show signs of trouble, or are so close in price to the Sawstop that it would be tough to justify.

I've got a really nice Unisaw I resto-modded this time last year which replaced an earlier vintage Unisaw that I felt was underpowered (it had the old repulsion-induction motor that's only about 1-1/2HP.) At the time I really wanted a Sawstop and after some quality time last summer helping a friend fix a neutered Sawstop (long tale of Craigslist woe) and seeing the guts of the machine and their customer service I'm even more resolved that, someday, hopefully sooner than later, I'll do it. Its close to $4K for the PCS with the options and extras that I want though after tax. I hate the politics of the company's owner but I've come to realize that if I didn't do business with companies who's politics I don't like, I probably would be pretty limited.

A Unisaw isn't a terribly complicated machine. Mine had lived at a Marina and other than some rust at the bottom and some patina on the top it hadn't really lived a very hard life. I paid $250 and promptly sold the original 110V motor and fence for about $150. Then I put a new Leeson 3HP motor in, bought a lightly used Unifence, painted, replaced bearings and belts and had a virtually new saw for well under $1K. I moved the Shark Guard that I had on my previous saw over. I shouldn't have a very hard time getting what I have into this one back out if/when I go to a Sawstop.

[glenn bradley]

I clicked "Buy New" but, this is not a question others can answer for you. If you are not interested in the newer features aimed at safety and don't mind certifying for yourself that the machine is in proper working order you can save a bundle buying used. Unlike some other replies, I place a high value on a riving knife. SawStop is a great idea but, for western saws, the return to the RK is a good thing.

I make furniture and don't deal with much in the way of sheetgoods. Small or intricate cuts offer all sorts of chances for things to go south behind the blade and a riving knife minimizes this. Perfect? No, but way better than just a splitter. BTW, I don't have a RK but, my next saw will ;-).

If you want a riving knife, a guard that you might actually use or "flesh sensing technology", new will be a logical choice. As for modern conveniences, most of these can be shop made or after-market acquired; decent fence, decent miter gauge, modern belts and bearings, etc. As usual, JMHO.