Zippo Cermark Dilemma

[William Noyer]

I did an unpainted Zippo for a customer this Christmas. Very simple; just put his nickname on it: Tres. Cleaned the surface with isopropyl alcohol before spraying it with Cermark (using the aerosol can). Ran it with no issues on my Epilog Helix 50W at 100%P and 20%S. He said he had it at home and filled it with some lighter fluid and overfilled slightly and when he wiped it off, part of the "T" and "r" came off. Any suggestions? I don't know if these are clear coated or what, or if they are just untreated metal. Either way, I was not happy to have a customer bring me something like that back. Did I mention he's my boss?

Bill

[Martin Boekers]

It may have had a protective coat on it that would interfer with the durability.

I believe Cermark needs bare metal. I'd contact Zippo they could tell you.

[Mark Sipes]

Serveral Good discussions on Zippos. Just Search "zippos"


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...erning-Cermark

[Scott Challoner]

I had the same experience a few months ago. The customer told me they were stainless, but they were chrome (search for chrome here too). I should have realized the difference, but I took his word for it. I ended up buffing them all off and re-running them at a slower speed. I can't believe that your 50W at 20% speed didn't work though. It sounds like your's may have a coating. Some make fixtures, run them to remove the coating and then re-run with Cermark. Good luck.

[Dan Hintz]

I'm pretty sure they have coatings... engrave, spray, re-engrave is the process.

[Mike Null]

Some don't have coatings but are chrome on brass which can be confused for stainless steel. Brass is typically much more difficult to work with. Try lower speeds and higher resolution.

[Martin Boekers]

I'm pretty sure they have coatings... engrave, spray, re-engrave is the process.

I guess you could raster the whole piece to remove the coating, then you would have to worry on re-registering it?

[Dan Hintz]

I guess you could raster the whole piece to remove the coating, then you would have to worry on re-registering it?

This is what jigs are for... re-registration. Only remove the portion of the coating you will be engraving... removing it all leads to possible issues down the road, like corrosion, scratches, etc.

[Richard Rumancik]

For a one-off I would probably not take it out of the machine. I would clamp, etch to remove lacquer, clean, apply Cermark in the machine, and mark.

If doing multiples a fixture might work (Dan, you did mean fixture not jig, right?) But to re-align text it has to be pretty robust with good clamping methods as you want to re-position with a tolerance of under .001". A lot of shop-built fixtures (made from acrylic, MDF and such) can't achieve this. And most of us don't have metalworking equipment to make an accurate fixture. Personally I'd probably not attempt making multiples if it required a cleaning pass first as it would be hit-and-miss (literally).

[Chuck Stone]

For a one-off I would probably not take it out of the machine. I would clamp, etch to remove lacquer, clean, apply Cermark in the machine, and mark.

If doing multiples a fixture might work (Dan, you did mean fixture not jig, right?) But to re-align text it has to be pretty robust with good clamping methods as you want to re-position with a tolerance of under .001". A lot of shop-built fixtures (made from acrylic, MDF and such) can't achieve this. And most of us don't have metalworking equipment to make an accurate fixture. Personally I'd probably not attempt making multiples if it required a cleaning pass first as it would be hit-and-miss (literally).

If the problem is that not removing the coating causes the Cermerk to come off,
then it seems to me that registration isn't a problem at all.

Run one pass to get rid of the coating... just where you want the marking.
Then spray and let it dry. Then run a solid black raster over the whole thing.
Then just wash it in the sink.. maybe with one of those green scrub pads.
Sounds like the only place it WOULD stick is where you wanted it to..

[Richard Rumancik]

Chuck - you are proposing to use the existing organic coating (whatever it actually is) as a mask. I suppose that in theory this works, but if you lasered a rectangle over the whole graphic (to avoid registration issues) you would bond the Cermark to the metal but ablate the organic coating within the rectangle as well. If this gave an acceptable appearance, then it might be an option. I am curious to know how well it would look though as you would probably see the rectangle on the finished piece.

[Chuck Stone]

I was only half serious.

But, if we want to continue the thought experiment.. your rastered rectangle could be
larger than the Zippo. And I don't know that the laser would remove the coating under
the Cermark.. it seems like the Cermark is already stopping the laser from getting to
the underlying metal.
..
unless the Cermark is bonding to the coating with the current process and
that is how it is coming off now.

I suppose if one were serious about trying this method, it would be a good idea to replace
any coating that gets removed. Clear powder coat? Brass lacquer? It would have to be
something that would bond well and hold up to some abuse.

[AL Ursich]

I live in PA and the PCNTV.com has Plant Tours on the Cable Channel. I have watched the Zippo tour a few times.

I believe that the Buffing Compound used in the finishing process is the problem with the Lighter Fluid dissolving the Cermark. It never bonded to the base metal.

I highly recommend investing in the Video to see the way they Chemical Etch the Lighters and Paint Fill.... With Laser Mask, Etching Compound, and Paint Fill.... YOU might have a new product....

Here is the link to buying the video. https://www.pcnstore.com/product_inf...f3qcq1irn8e7o5

It is Tour 448

Per the Video, it just looks like the coating is just buffed with compound and it is that wax like compound that is causing the problems...

AL

[Bill Cunningham]

I usually run them at 1200 dpi 100%pwr and 10 speed.. Never had anything come off yet.. Never found any of them were coated..