Local turning clubs - safety, liability and such

[Roger Chandler]

Officers of the local woodturning clubs need to check out the latest developments with the coverage of the liability insurance from AAW .........seems there are issues related to the prohibitive cost that has arisen.

Check out the AAW site for info.......you can get info in the members area............club presidents should be getting info from AAW directly and there is some info on the forum area.

Woodturning is by and large a fairly safe activity, so lets all make sure we practice best safety techniques such as wearing appropriate protective gear and and thinking through the best we can if what we are about to do is safe.

Especially, lets look at the wood itself and make sure to the best we can that large chunks cannot break off and hit us.....turning sound wood is the best way to avoid a dangerous accident. Keeping our risks to the bare minimum will enhance our longevity at this wonderful craft called woodturning.

[Rob Price]

I'm surprised no one replied to this thread. I was asked to serve as an officer in my local club this year. I was told I needed to join the AAW to be covered under the (now defunct) insurance policy. I joined today only to be greeted by an announcement there is no longer any insurance.

I wonder what local clubs are doing about this? Are you going to require liability releases/waivers at the meetings? I know we're all buddies and all, but all it takes is one catch, one chunk of wood in the face for someone, and now we're no longer friends. Personally, I'm not comfortable being an officer if it means anyone at the meeting can sue me personally for something out of my control. It all seems petty to even talk about it, but lets face it, if someone can sue McDonald's for millions because their coffee was hot, why should I risk my ass(ets) by volunteering in a local club activity.

Surely there's a lawyer or two around here who can comment, but it's enough to make me want to re-think being an officer.

[Alan Trout]

If you read the latest on the thread over at the AAW website, members and officers are still covered as long as you are doing the business of the AAW. This includes meetings, demo's, symposiums, AAW sponsored events etc. What has changed is that if you rent space the club the building is no longer covered if you burn the place down etc. Of course if you are giving private instruction etc. then you are not covered. You need to purchase a policy for that.

Here is what Al Hockenberry had to say over at the AAW forum.

Basically AAW members have liability coverage while doing AAW business which include documented chapter business such as demonstrating at a Mall or Fair.
It is important that the event be documented as a chapter event in the news letter, web site, emails...
Only AAW members are covered.

As an aside, chapter officers and boards of directors must be AAW members so they have liability coverage when doing AAW activities.

What is lost is the chapter liability and the tenant liability that was used to show proof of insurance to landlords of the meeting place.

AAW members are not covered by the AAW insurance while doing their own business.

Al

Alan

[Kenneth Hertzog]

I'm V P of our local club. With that said I can assure you that there will be no wood turning going on till this issue is resolved.
There is no building insurance as well as liability for the turner or the club. I'm also not willing to take the risk.
Our meeting is tomorrow night 1/15/2013 and hope to know more then.
maybe get our own policy but at what expense.
Ken

[Scott Hackler]

I too had seen this news and feel that this is going to have a very negative effect to the AAW membership and to the local chapters. One (if not the) only reason for a club to become an AAW chapter was the liability insurance. Between demos at the meetings, workshops and demos outside of the regular meetings....the scramble to find affordable liability insurance for the local clubs/chapters is going to prove to be a challenge. The local club I joined has diddley squat for funds and taking a possible thousand dollar hit will kill this club.

I understand the AAW's side of it, with the premium sky rocketing. BUT they are going to feel the pinch when folks don't see the advantage to become a member anymore.

[Scott Hackler]

If you read the latest on the thread over at the AAW website, members and officers are still covered as long as you are doing the business of the AAW. This includes meetings, demo's, symposiums, AAW sponsored events etc. What has changed is that if you rent space the club the building is no longer covered if you burn the place down etc. Of course if you are giving private instruction etc. then you are not covered. You need to purchase a policy for that.

Here is what Al Hockenberry had to say over at the AAW forum.





Alan

I posted the same time and didn't read this until now. So if I understand Al correctly, all officers or demo-ers MUST be AAW members in order for them to be covered at the regular meetings and for documented events. What isn't covered would be events where we would do hands on teaching (say to a Boy Scout group) unless anyone touching a lathe is also a member.

I think that only about 1/3 of the membership in my club are AAW members. I wonder what this will do to workshop days. The regular meeting demo-ers are probably AAW members.

[Rob Price]

I don't think the physical location is an issue for our club, but I will ask. I just can't be liable for someone who is attending a demo and heaven forbid something comes off the lathe and hits them.

[John Keeton]

It would seem ill advised to assess one's exposure on a general statement as to what coverage now exists. The certificate of coverage issued by Accord would leave in doubt what coverage remains, and that is the "evidence of coverage" - not the general statement of any AAW board member. Hockenberry's post contains statements that could be deemed contradictory. A more authoritative explanation of the existing coverages from the carrier would seem the best response here. One would think AAW would provide that in the midst of this situation.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I think this issue should be discussed at the AAW site, where the only ones are that can address the questions, rather than second guessing things over here, just my opinion on it.

[Kevin Bierman]

our club "discovered" this the morning of our meeting even as our president was opening a copy of a statement of insurance to give to our landlord. we called him right away and he agreed to let us meet but no turning was to be done until we could prove we had liability insurance. we are maybe 2/3rd AAw members and many are questioning why belong at all. we are exploring all options we can and if we strike out I don't think the club will survive. AAW should have kept all clubs posted on this from the begining.

[Alan Trout]

It would seem ill advised to assess one's exposure on a general statement as to what coverage now exists. The certificate of coverage issued by Accord would leave in doubt what coverage remains, and that is the "evidence of coverage" - not the general statement of any AAW board member. Hockenberry's post contains statements that could be deemed contradictory. A more authoritative explanation of the existing coverages from the carrier would seem the best response here. One would think AAW would provide that in the midst of this situation.

John I agree that there is not enough specificity in any of the statements. Accord forms are pretty useless. The best thing would be to see the declaration pages of the policy. That tells exactly what is covered and what is not.

Alan

[Harvey M. Taylor]

I am with Leo on this. No club turning till it is settled.After all, what can just members do about it. Max

[Noah Barfield]

Hi all,

As president of our chapter (the OPCAAW), I decided it would be best to talk with someone at the AAW directly to figure out how this change affects our exposure as a club (as well as individual officers) to potential risks. After listening to the description of the changes and the reason behind the changes, I asked a hypothetical situation question: What if, during a demo, a piece flies off the lathe and strikes a non-AAW member. What are we liable for?

He (Phillip, I believe) stated that as AAW members, the officers would have liability coverage through the AAW if we were sued as a club. The demonstrator would have liability insurance if he/she was an AAW member. What would NOT be covered, however, is if the victim chose to sue the owner of the building. Additionally, our chapter, as an organization, is open to suit--thus our assets--lathe, tools, etc. could be seized.

He wanted me to know that they are working diligently on trying to find a new provide. However, he was not optimistic that we would be able to get the same level of coverage as we've had in past years. Insurance costs for the AAW doubled in price from 2011-2012.

I'm meeting with my fellow officers tonight at our monthly BOD meeting. My advice would be to suspend all turning demos and workshops until this gets resolved.

Noah

[John Keeton]

Noah, he may be speaking of medical payments coverage, which pays an injured person's medical bills up to the limit of coverage regardless of fault - in this case $5,000.

D&O (directors and officers) coverage would provide coverage to the board for wrongful acts in their capacity as directors and officers. It is mostly referred to in circumstances where the behavior of decisions making of the board comes in to question. Normally, that is related to situations other than personal injury as might occur during a demo, although there might be some elements that could be involved in that type of claim.

I just seriously doubt the AAW folks truly know what coverages are still in effect. I just completed a term as president and board member of our local chapter club. As a board member, I would not accept anyone's description of available coverage short of a representative of Travelers Insurance Company. There is just too much personal exposure.

I have attached a copy of the pertinent portion of the certificate of coverage - note the excluded personal injury coverage. Also note, that it is not possible to determine if D&O coverage for local clubs exists from the information available.