Help me spend $800-1000 on hand tools

[Jim Koepke]

I say avoid eBay until you know what to look for. But starting out you don't know what to look for and so are far more likely to get had then to find a good deal. Later once one has the experience to know the difference between a good tool and a bad one eBay does have its gems but a newbie is most likely going to waste money learning the hard way or give up because their tools don't work right and they don't have the skills/time/inclination get them working properly.

I said buy a LN/LV plane but should have added a good well turned user as another option. This is useful as a reference when trying to get other tools to work properly. Yes with time and experience or a good teacher this isn't needed. You should also notice I suggested a small block plane to keep costs down.

If this was my approach, most likely my time wouldn't be spent woodworking right now. My income at the time didn't allow the purchase high end tools.

One of my posts in the Sticky: Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs addresses what to look for when buying on ebay. It can not cover everything some charlatan might try to pull, but that is why one needs to ask questions and pay attention to feedback and what the dealer is selling.

This will help with a lot of "what to look for when buying planes."

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...gs-to-Look-For

Here is one on getting started with hand planes:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...th-Hand-Planes

As said earlier, if my process started by purchasing high end planes, even a block plane, my woodworking enjoyment would have been thwarted. Yes, the OP did say they had $800-1000 to spend. That is not a reason to spend that much. Spend some of the savings on a guilty pleasure for the significant other and it will be easier to spend more on tools in the future.

My method may be backward, but my high end plane purchases have been limited to tools not available at a decent price on the secondary market and only after learning how to work with the old second hand planes.

Sure there were some struggles and disappointments, but the lessons learned by going along this path have been invaluable.

If Jared has a good income and can support all new tools in his shop, then it may be the best path for him. If he is like me and spent a lot of time eating weenies and beans to save up his money, he may want to consider second hand tools.

He did state:

So what tools should I buy to get started with my $800-1000. I only want excellent quality tools, even if that means just buying a few at first and adding some more every couple paychecks.

An old Stanley #4 and #5 from a reliable dealer would be a good choice. Otherwise both from either LV or LN would be great choices.

jtk

[Paul McGaha]

Jared,

If I was just getting started in hand tools and had $1,000 to spend I think I would buy:

1) Stu's 3 piece stone set. About $300
2) Lee Valley's Stone Pond with an additional glass plate About $ 80
3) Some of the adhesive backed sandpaper from LN in grits 80, 180, 400. About $180
4) An Eclipse honing guide. About $ 12
5) 7 piece set of Narex chisels from Lee Valley. About $ 69
6) Try to find you a creeker that will be willing to sell you some of his
planes like Sean Hughto did for me. (Thanks again Sean) Stanley Bailey #3, 4, 5, 7 About $150
7) New Hock plane irons and chip breakers for Stanley Bailey #3, 4, 5, 7 About $223

So far, if my math is right I've spent $1,004. Haven't addressed any saws, block planes, work bench, clamps, specialty planes, many other things.

But we do have some pretty decent sharpening items, set of Narex bevel edge chisels, Vintage Stanley Baileys in 3, 4, 5, 7. It's a start.

Good luck with it.

PHM

[David Weaver]

Exchange rates are pretty favorable now, anything that comes from japan is about 15% cheaper than it was a couple of months ago. They're experimenting with stimulus programs or something and attempting to inflate their currency (which makes it weaker relative to ours).

[Sam Takeuchi]

Jared,

1) Stu's 3 piece stone set. About $300
2) Lee Valley's Stone Pond with an additional glass plate About $ 80
3) Some of the adhesive backed sandpaper from LN in grits 80, 180, 400. About $180

I think $560 for sharpening and flattening equipments are farrrrrrrrrr excessive at this point. They are nice to have and I'm all for having good basic set of sharpening equipment (even then, there are cheaper and 'decent' choices available even if they are not considered the best). The fact is, when you want to buy everything, $1000 doesn't go far. I don't think it's wise to find stuff to top off the budget, rather the idea should be to stretch the budget so that they have good set of tools they can use to make basic stuff at least. No saw, no clamp, no woodworking.

From your list of thing, I wouldn't hesitate to knock stone pond, abrasive paper set, 7 piece Narex chisel set (4 will do in the beginning), No. 3 or No. 4 (one smoother will do at first), and Hock blade (unless stock is very soft like some of them are, it's unnecessary) off the list. They are definitely more necessary things than those. Sharp and durable plane blades and set of chisels are no substitute for saws, clamps, finishing equipment (which eventually will be necessary), so on and on. What cost the most is these small things that aren't expensive, but you need a lot of. Clamps definitely fall into one of those. Even if you spend a lot on clamps of various sizes, there will be a time when you think to yourself "damn, I don't have enough clamps!".

I think other than a few basic set (sharpening stones/equipments, a couple of planes, a saw, few clamps, stainless rule, square), save the rest as 'purchase as needed' budget. Suggesting all those optional items to blow $1000 while skipping the most basic necessary tools seem a bit silly. He wouldn't be able to do even the most basic woodworking projects even with those fleet of planes and chisels.

[David Weaver]

I can't see that the stones are awful in a budget. It's HARD to find cheap stones now unless you're willing to use india stones, and while india stones are a great bargain, you still have to have something to keep them flat if you're a beginner.

If the "stu set" goes for about $255 plus shipping, that's essentially equivalent to buying an atoma and getting three stones for $155-$160.

The flattening stuff can wait, though, norton 3x and a can of spray stick-em in lieu of expensive rolls is extremely capable for anything where a 1000 stone can't do the work (which shouldn't be many things). A common belt sander or just about anything can fill the role of grinding very well.

What's disturbing for beginners is the disconnect between what you can get with vintage planes if you know what to look for and what you will sometimes get if you don't. I still like the idea of all vintage planes better for someone on a tight budget, my favorite planes are probably my cheapest - getting a jointer, jack and a smoother for $100 is like getting something for nothing. I'd rather spend an extra $100 or a little more on stones to get premium stones than spend many hundreds more on premium chisels and planes.

[Paul McGaha]

With the list I made, I don't know, I tried to go ahead and cover the sharpening. I guess the sandpaper could be reduced to something cheaper but I don't think I'd remove any of the other sharpening items.

There is a lot of savings in the used planes. Maybe you could do without the Hock replacement irons, They are really nice to have though.

The Narex chisels are pretty affordable.

Notice there are no high end tools on the list.

I just don't think $1,000 is going to go that far. Unless you could get really lucky and buy everything used and deeply discounted.

[Sam Takeuchi]

I don't know if I'd suggest premium stones for someone just starting out. Learning to sharpen and flatten blades, plus likelihood of excessive flattening as learning to use stones, I don't think he (the beginning woodworker) gets what he paid for after quite a bit of stone literally down in the drain. If anything, I'd suggest something like Norton combo stones. I know they are not the best performers out there, but these were good enough for large woodworking population for some time before, it should do fine. Something like #1000 and #4000/#8000 should cost less than half the price of the premium stones. I think these should be good training wheel stones until he becomes comfortable with sharpening and becomes performance conscious.

As for planes, I'd say go with vintage planes, too, but from reputable tool dealers. If going with premium planes, there is hardly any money left after a couple of planes if his budget is $800 to $1000. I think he could manage to buy 3 planes (smoother, jack, jointer if desired) from tool dealer(s) and Norton combo for well below $500. But depending on what he plans to make, maybe he wouldn't even need a jointer. That's where "as needed" budget comes in. It's not often when someone gets great deal, paying only $100 or $150 for a set of planes, so that has to be accounted for.

$1000 isn't a lot, but it's plenty to have a set of basic tools, including saws, clamps, measuring tools etc. And as for Narex chisel set, they are affordable, yes, but realistically, do you use all these sizes? I struggle to use all of standard sizes in a set of 4 (I have my favorite sizes, like everyone else does), unless for a specific applications, I can't really imagine anyone needing a set of 7, unless grabbing next closest size when one gets dull is a reason to get a big set, but that's hardly a necessity. When a set of 4 can be had for about $30 give or take, I think that's more practical. Difference of $20, you can buy a humble, yet extremely useful tool such as dividers.

Like I said, he needs to build from ground up, he 'needs' basic tools in order to do something. I'm not disagreeing with you in emphasizing the importance of sharpening and equipments, but it has to be done to fit the overall scheme of things. If purchase of optional items prevents one from cutting, measuring, clamping and all that, that's something akin to buying a car with all the options with no gas in the tank and no more money for gas to drive out of the dealership until next pay check. That won't do unless he is ok sitting on all the tools for a month until next paycheck that is. Then that's an another story.

[Hovey Moore]

If this was my approach, most likely my time wouldn't be spent woodworking right now. My income at the time didn't allow the purchase high end tools.

When did I say buy all premium planes? I said buy ONE. Just one. A block, 4, 5, & 7 from LV/LN would basically kill his entire budget. Leaving no funds for the host of other needed tools to get started let alone sharpen what he just bought. He did state he wanted only excellent quality tools even if that meant waiting a bit but that is still too much waiting for most people.

Unless one is going for a LAJ, I wouldn't go for a new 5 as they normally used as course planes and an old Stanley works almost as well even in less than ideal condition. Buy the rest of the planes from a reputable tool dealer and save a ton of cash over new.

[David Weaver]

In coarse work, they work better, actually. They're lighter. If I were only allowed to have one premium plane ever, it would be a premium jointer. Shame that's the most expensive of them, but aside from an LAJ that I kept as a shooter (which almost never gets used), the only premium plane I kept was a LN jointer. It's fantastic, though I'd kind of like to dump it, too, but if you take a thin shaving jointing an edge, take a couple of stop shavings and then a through shaving, the edge is FLAT and it's academic to use a straight edge to check anything but the very ends of a board.

[Jim Koepke]

When did I say buy all premium planes? I said buy ONE.

At the time, my budget didn't even have room for one. The prices for LN and LV were lower then, but so was my discretionary income. Other than what might be considered a "collector" plane, my most expensive bench plane is a #8, type 6a, at $50. There isn't a plane in my shop that can't join or smooth a surface as well as a new premium plane.

There is nothing wrong with premium planes. They may be built better than my old planes with better machining and higher labor costs, but when the blade hits the wood, the wood doesn't know any difference. If one has the financial resources to go that way they can be a good investment. If one has a little time and elbow grease, old tools can also be a good and even profitable investment. Some of my used tool purchases have been rehabilitated, used and later sold. Most of the time for a nice profit, allowing me to buy some premium tools not available on the used market.

My first try square was from the local hardware store. So were my first chisels, Sandvick at the time were a little less than $10 each. Mine were bought one at a time. Pipe clamps were the cheapest solution for my needs allowing easy conversion to various sizes by buying long pieces of pipe and cutting them down. The first new "premium" plane in my shop was a modern Stanley 060 block plane from the same hardware store my chisels and square were purchased. All of them are still used in my shop.

If one doesn't pay ridiculous prices for used tools, they can often be sold at a profit or at least break even prices.

So, getting back to the original question of what someone starting out in woodworking needs...

Tools for marking and layout:

A combination square and other layout tools might top the list.

My first marking knife was made from a broken piece of a kitchen knife. Many people like Xacto knives for this. A pencil can do the job.

Most of my dividers come from old drafting sets. Often available at low prices since very little manual drafting is done these days.

Marking gauges are inexpensive if you purchase a Stanley pin gauge. Woodcraft has what is likely a made in China wheel gauge for $16. Over time it is handy to have more than one. My favorite and most used is the Tite Mark at about $90.

Clamps are very important for woodworking. There are ways to get around without them, but then you need some rope and know how or some other method to hold things together while the glue dries.

If one has edge tools one also needs a way to keep them sharp. Someone else suggested Norton 1000 and a 4000/8000 combo set. That can be easily put together. Lie-Nielsen has the set listed at $110. That is a good starting set. Yes there are much better, but someone learning to sharpen is likely to put a few gouges in their stones and better to learn the basics and have the "accidents" with an inexpensive set rather than a $300 set. By the time they need replacement the beginner will have improved enough to make the bigger investment more practical. BTW, my stone collection keeps getting bigger as none have been sold, but if something shows up at a yard sale or flea market my money is out of my pocket if the price is right. My situation is different than most since even my garden tools get hit by the stones. Also my shop isn't heated. When my stone pond becomes a skating rink my oil stones get the work.

Most of my work could be done with four chisels, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 & 1". Though it is nice to have a lot of other sizes, styles and even duplicates.

There are many types of people in this craft. Just like the discussion of whether a bench should have a tool tray or not there are other choices that are personal to each of us.

Some like to have matched sets of tools. Some of us do not care as long as it allows us to get the work done.

Only a few of my bench planes are not Stanley/Bailey style planes. Mine are all different from type 4 to type 17. Some people only want all their planes to be type 11 others want type 12. Some folks only want square top Bedrocks. Then there are others who only want to use infills or wooden body planes. Then there are those who do not care and will have just about every maker ever known represented in their fleet of planes.

The wood will never know the difference.

Finally:

He did state he wanted only excellent quality tools even if that meant waiting...

Only a few of my old Stanley/Bailey planes could be considered to be not "excellent quality tools." That is mostly due to them having been damaged by previous owners. There are a few that have cracks or other problems, but they are still fine users.

If Jared had said he wanted only "NEW" tools, we would have a different story.

One of my thoughts was to offer to send him a couple of good user junkers to see how well an old piece of crud can perform. There has been a scraper plane floating around for those who want to give it a try. My junker #4 has a crack and a $3 blade. It still does a great job. Maybe that old plane should be sent around in a similar fashion. The biggest obstacle is the shipping is likely more than the plane is really worth.

Here is the story on the plane and the blade:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?181726

It was made up of odd parts laying around the shop.

jtk

[Bob Jones]

You have gotten lots of good tips here and some real specific things. I will add a few general guidelines rather than exact tools for fun.

1- buy the book "Handtools for woodwork" by Charles hayward on amazon for $5 (do this first)
2-buy vintage planes and use the vintage blades. the vintage blades will work fine and are much easier to grind and sharpen. The key - Buy them from members of this forum (or others). Post a WTB and get planes that are already tuned! This will be your cheapest and easiest option.
3 - buy no more than 3 bench chisels (2 would do ya) 1/4, 3/4, and 1/2 (optional) the AI chisels at TFWW are an excellent value
4 - buy 1 mortise chisel (1/4 or 5/16)
5 - plan to make all of your wooden tools (mallets, straightedges, panel gauge, bench hook)
6 - buy vintage saws from members of this forum. Buy them sharp and learn to sharpen them.
7 - do not buy a honing guide. learn to sharpen freehand because it is cheap. I use guides, but for centuries they were not an option.
8 - use joinery that does not require clamps - they are expensive. Dovetails, pegged mortice and tendon - also, rope with a twist handle is a reasonable clamp
9 - the $25 stanley handsaws work surprisingly well...

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

8 - use joinery that does not require clamps - they are expensive. Dovetails, pegged mortice and tendon - also, rope with a twist handle is a reasonable clamp

Plus one on that. There are lots of other ways to get around clamping things. I think I built my first electric guitar without many clamps - gluing up the two halves for the body would have required wider clamps than I had. I screwed down cleats and used opposing wedges. Rope and opposing wedges works with other stuff.

Drawbored mortise and tenon joints are great, if for no other reason than I can put together a frame and panel and then set it aside without clamps being all over the place.

[Sam Takeuchi]

Plus one on that. There are lots of other ways to get around clamping things. I think I built my first electric guitar without many clamps - gluing up the two halves for the body would have required wider clamps than I had. I screwed down cleats and used opposing wedges. Rope and opposing wedges works with other stuff.

Drawbored mortise and tenon joints are great, if for no other reason than I can put together a frame and panel and then set it aside without clamps being all over the place.

Center bookmatched solid body pieces can be glued together using hide glue and rubbed joint, you don't even need twine and wedge. But electric guitar isn't really a good example of not using clamps, though. There are very few things to clamp to begin with unless you are into laminated x pieces neck. Even fingerboard can be glued using twine and torque, but other than that, at least I don't see much else that requires clamps for the bolt on construction guitar. On the other hand, I would hate to be without clamps when putting together set-in neck. I'm sure it can be done without so-called clamps, but I don't see why anyone would want to do it without. There is enough minute adjustments to be made as pieces are setting without need to fuss about with clamping business.

Do you guys really go without clamps? I'm not a furniture maker, so I might be missing something obvious, but do you guys really drawbore and dovetail everything that you guys don't use clamps? Surely, small number of C-clamps or F-clamps would be at least come in most useful out of all thing at times? If anything, a few Quick Grip surely make things easier when pieces have to be temporarily secured. Or for making jigs for something.

What you can do without clamps and what realistically make sense using is totally different thing. I don't know about you, but at least beginning his woodworking experience without clamps and having to devise clamping technique for every step of the way when he can barely sharpen his tools appears to be unnecessary hassle to me at this point. Is it realistic? I don't know what he plans to make, but he might just want to make small things like bookstand or something, I don't know. Either way, I'm fairly certain he will be thinking about lack of clamp in his endeavor at some point, I'm sure most of you have at one point or another.

[Bobby O'Neal]

There are a few things to consider. When you say you want to buy high-quality stuff we have to define that. If it means LN or LV, you'll likely just buy a few chisels, a plane, a combo square, a knife and a saw or two and practice cutting joints and planing until you need some more cash to recreate an edge. And to be clear, I think this route would be highly beneficial in a lot of ways.

If the quality you're after is based on results alone then you have a lot of options. There will be give and take down this road, though. Old tools require some education. Cheaper stuff like Woodriver or other "store Brand" type things may not have the off the shelf consistency you'd like. That said, I have chisels and a #5 Woodriver that are very decent. Not great, but decent.

Whatever you build first, get the tools you'll need.

Get lumber.
Measure it.
Demension it.
Cut joints.
Glue and clamp?
Finish it.
Apply a finish.

All the best, you'll have a blast.

[David Keller NC]

I just kind of want to get some tools and get started and practice basic techniques? I don't want to dig through ebay for vintage planes to restore. I even read something from Chris Schwartz that advised against it. it was something along the lines of "do you want to spend your time woodworking or repairing tools?". I know that the choice is endless and everyone has different needs as their talents develop. But surely there are some must haves in a woodworkers tool collection that I will always have use for that can get me started. And if I buy these new and high quality, then I won't have to rebuy them later.

Let me just say that this is not some hobby I will try and get bored of.

Jared - After writing many thousands of posts on the net wood forums and reading tens of thousands, I'd say that your wisdom is in the top 0.001% of the beginner's I've helped.

You are 100% dead-on with "And if I buy these new and high quality, then I won't have to rebuy them later.", and almost 100% of beginners make this exact choice when starting out because they have sticker shock over what a complete hand tool shop can cost. And almost every one of them wind up selling their "budget" tools and replacing them after a while.

What is often missed when making these choices is that if properly purchased, a high-quality dovetail saw is a lifetime purchase - you will never use it up. The same is true with planes, chisels, marking tools, etc... Looked at this way, a $300 handplane doesn't cost so much.

So as been alluded to by a few posters on this thread, the way to limit your expenditures at first is to limit the number of tools that you purchase, and you do that by picking a project that you can handle and only buy what tools you need to complete the project and only when you need them.

And here is the part of this post (and thread) that will benefit you the most: The handtool that has not been mentioned but is required to do any hand tool work is a proper workbench. Unlike power tool woodworking where you can get by with the kitchen table (and I did when I was starting out!), a workbench is a must for handtool woodworking.

And the best thing to do is to build your own, because in doing so you will be purchasing the hand tools that you need when you need them.

So here is the only money you should spend in the next couple of weeks (or 2 days if you're a fast reader): The Workbench: From Theory and Design to Construction and Use by Chris Schwarz and The Anarchist's Toolchest by Chris Schwarz. The first book will give you all the information you need to build a workbench that will take you through at least the next 10 years of hand-tool woodworking. The second book (despite the title) is about a set of tools, not so much a toolchest. In it, Chris sets out a very minimalist set of handtools that can be acquired in stages. And while any of us might prefer a slightly different design/brand than what he selects, there is zero question that what he recommends won't be dust-gatherers.

Don't spend any money on any tools until you buy or borrow these 2 books and read them. If you buy them and you decide you don't need them, you can pretty much instantly sell them on this forum for 90% of the money that you paid for them.