Face frame vs euro cabinet construction

[Ole Anderson]

I am looking into redoing my kitchen cabinets and counter tops. Fairly small kitchen, about 20 lf of cabinets. Looking to keep the base cabinets and just building new raised panel doors and drawer fronts and veneering the exposed ends and edges. Probably go with some type of vent feature over the range, either SS or wood. Removing the drop ceiling over the upper cabs and building new taller boxes and doors up there. The existing cabs are frameless construction (OK, they are cheap Mills Pride from HD 18 years ago , but they are still in good shape and I hate to kick them out to the curb). Thinking of going frameless (Euro?) plywood cabs with raised panel doors, possibly Hickory, on top to match the base cabs. In your mind what are the pluses and minuses of frameless? I have done both.

[Rick Potter]

I think it depends on preference. Mine is for traditional frames. That being said, I won't try to convince you. I think your only choice is to make them frameless, and match the bottom cabinets. One way or the other, it sounds like you will have to color match. I would make new, taller ones and use the existing ones in the laundry room, garage, or shop.

Rick Potter

[Bruce Wrenn]

You can have the best of both worlds, by using Danny Proulx's methods of construction. Look like FF, but uses Euro hardware. Get a copy of his book, "Making Your Own Kitchen Cabinets."

[Ole Anderson]

I would make new, taller ones and use the existing ones in the laundry room, garage, or shop.

Thanks for the tip, however this is my second cabinet swap in this home, I already reused the old cabs in the laundry room, shop and garage. Maybe one of my boys could use them in his home.

[Bill White]

I guess that I'm just too set in my ways, but I prefer face frames. But, I don't have a hand crank on my truck. There may be hope for me yet.
Bill

[Jeff Duncan]

I like Euro style cabinets for my own use and face frames for my clients. My reasoning is simple, Euro cabinets have slightly better access and better utilization of space, and for myself I prefer practicality. For my clients I like FF as they're more expensive to make Not that I really sell them one vs the other, just explain the pro's and cons and let them decide

good luck,
JeffD

[frank shic]

building frameless with prefinished plywood will save you an enormous amount of time in finishing and assembly. most people own face frame kitchen cabinets so frameless cabinets are actually somewhat more original. i'm planning on doing beaded inset for my next kitchen renovation but i really enjoyed building frameless cabinets for the garage recently.

[Jim Foster]

I think it depends a little on the style of your home, trim, furniture, etc... Also your taste.

[phil harold]

I Euro cabinets have slightly better access and better utilization of space, and for myself I prefer practicality.
JeffD

In my honest opinion euro look better
I laugh when I see a face frame cabinets made to look like euro, what a waste of wood and space...

[George Gyulatyan]

In my honest opinion euro look better
I laugh when I see a face frame cabinets made to look like euro, what a waste of wood and space...

Or vice versa.

I also prefer euro cabinets, for the reasons Jeff Duncan states. I find FF to look bulky, plus on built-ins, the structural strenght that FF provides is not as important as on free standing cabinets. IMHO of course.

[Peter Kelly]

Face frame cabinets with fully inset doors and drawer heads look awesome (especially in older homes where they might be more period-appropriate). Otherwise, frameless 32mm Euro boxes are the way to go. Just doors, no FF.

Keep in mind that it's kitchen, not a piece of furniture.

[Steve Griffin]

Euro:
-very efficient for small gap overlay style
-not as rigid as boxes with face frame, so more care must be taken to not install cabinet racked.
-transitions to built-in appliances such as ovens or partitions such as fridge side panels often require some extra planning and messing around with filler strips.
-large opening uppers require more deck support. Often a light rail is needed anyway, and this can take care of the structure as well.
-Edge banding can fail over time and look terrible. I use 1/4" thick solid wood edging instead, which is pin nailed and glued which is more durable.

Face Frame:
-required for inset or overlay styles which have large spaces between doors/drawers. required for openshelves.
-more options for finished ends, especially frame and panel style.
-Wall Scribes, light rails, bottom cabinet support, nailing for top trim can all provided by the frame.
-tall pantry cabinets or broom cabinets cabinet sides are more rigid.

The style of cabinetry you are doing will usually make the face frame/euro system decision easy.

[Erik Christensen]

Am facing the exact decision myself - full kitchen remodel. Wife & designer have chosen full overlay but designer wants face frames because of the perception of greater structural strength. I make cabinet boxes out of 3/4 BB (including backs) and all joints are held with glue and domino's. I put a full 3/4" tongue & groove hard maple edge band on all exposed edges (easy with a shaper & power feeder) and lowers have a front top spacer held with domino's to keep the front from racking. I don't think they would rack if you parked a car on them - they ARE heavy as sin to move around & install but the incremental time/$$ of using all 3/4 bb & domino's is less than building a face frame... plus more room inside, easier to hang drawer slides, etc.

any rational reason, given my materials & construction methods, to use a face frame on full overlay???

[Jeff Duncan]

Erik, here's my general thoughts on structural differences between the types of cabinetry.....non factor

If the cabinets are built well and installed correctly they should last a lifetime in service. I've pulled out junk cabinets that were stapled and hot glued together with the flimsiest materials available and they were still working fine when we pulled them. The structural differences are almost a moot point IMHO and are something overemphasized.

Second, Euro cabinetry by it's nature has the full overlay look and as far as that goes....personal preference. However one can get the same look in FF cabinetry just by designing from the start. So look-wise your not married to either technique.

Your construction technique is sound if not overly engineered....not that that's a bad thing I build my Euro boxes and FF boxes the same way. I bore all the holes on a CNC drill and then use confirmat screws and glue to assemble, solid as can be! I use an edgebander for the panels as it's financially the only way to go. However there's no question the solid banding your doing will outlast tape on shelf edges. There's always multiple ways to skin a cat, and I think the way your going is more than adequate and should last your lifetime....and then some.

good luck,
JeffD