Shop Vac versus Festool Dust Extractor

[Ron Kanter]

Everyone must decide for him/herself based on their priorities and finances.
Having said that I have two additional thoughts.
A Stradivarius violin costs millions. Is it hundreds of times better sounding or playing than a lesser known name. Probably not,but some musicians can appreciate and enjoy it even if the audience doesn't have a clue or can't here it among a full orchestra.
I have never regretted buying the best tool I could afford. I have often wasted money by "saving" money on a lesser quality tool that the proved less than satisfactory or I outgrew as my skills increased.

[Kevin Gagne]

Simple answer is yes a Festool, or any high end dust extractor is much better than a shop vac for all the reasons mentioned above. Can you make a shop vac better buy adding components to it, yes you can. Will those changes make a shop vac as good as a high end dust extractor, no it won't. For some people a shop vac with the modifications will be adequate for them. I used a setup like this for many years. Then I bought a Festool dust extractor (and other Festools to go with it) and definitely notice a difference. The quality and features don't compare with the cheaper equipment and tools. Now if people can't afford them I understand that but saying they are overpriced and not worth it I have to disagree with that. I have never been disappointed with any Festool purchase I have made. If I was not happy I have 30 days to return it with no questions asked for a full refund.

[Stew Hagerty]

Simple answer is yes a Festool, or any high end dust extractor is much better than a shop vac for all the reasons mentioned above. Can you make a shop vac better buy adding components to it, yes you can. Will those changes make a shop vac as good as a high end dust extractor, no it won't. For some people a shop vac with the modifications will be adequate for them. I used a setup like this for many years. Then I bought a Festool dust extractor (and other Festools to go with it) and definitely notice a difference. The quality and features don't compare with the cheaper equipment and tools. Now if people can't afford them I understand that but saying they are overpriced and not worth it I have to disagree with that. I have never been disappointed with any Festool purchase I have made. If I was not happy I have 30 days to return it with no questions asked for a full refund.

Kevin, I never said that Festool wasn't worth the price. In fact I said, " Now, I'm not saying that Festool isn't worth the price when compared to other portable vac systems, it may very well be." What I was saying is that it may not be worth the extra amount for everyone. As you said, for some people simple shop vacs and/or modified shop vacs are prefectly fine. Whether or not they are overpriced depends on the person buying or not buying one.

What I was attempting to do was to simply offer a counterpoint to all of the people that were recommending Festool. William was asking for advice and I was offering my mine, which happened to be diametrically opposed to most of those who preceded me.

I am definately not a person that shuns the higher priced woodworking items. I happen to collect Woodpeckers products. I like them for their accuracy, durability, and the fact that they are made in the USA. Is their 12" Try Square ($99) or 6" Speed Square ($60) more expensive than their counterparts from Sears at $7.19 and $8.09 respectively. Um... Yeah. Are they more accurate and more durable? Absolutely. Are the Sears tools made in the USA? Not hardly. Are the Woodpeckers tools worth the extra $82 or $52? Well, I happen to think they are. Besides the Woodpeckers tools come with a really cool french fitted block for wall mounting:

Woodpeckers 1281.jpg


I also happen to like Lee Valley tools. Their #4 smoothing plane is definately more than one of the new English made Stanley's or for that matter, one of the vintage ones (although I have a couple of those as well).

So, I am not trying to say not to buy Festool, or any other tool, because it's priced higher than another regardless of the differential. I was simply offering my personal opinion based on my experience after seeing that most of the responders to William's question were recommending the Festool product.

[Peter Aeschliman]

As most have stated, the "is it worth the extra money" question should be considered rhetorical. Only the person asking that question can answer it based on the combination of their own needs and means.

People often say you should buy the best tool you can afford. To me, this is also somewhat of a pointless mantra. I can "afford" a lot of things, but that doesn't mean it always makes sense to spend the extra money. Just about everything is on a spectrum.

If I have $1,000 to spend and a list of tools I'd like to buy in order of priority, would I spend all $1,000 on the first tool on the list so that I can buy the best tool I can afford? No way. Especially if I "need" all of the tools on that list to do the work I want to do.

Life is, in large part, about trade-offs. So to the OP- the best you can do is gather the facts, look at your finances, look at your needs for this particular purchase decision, and your other tool purchase priorities, and make the decision for yourself.

As for my take... I have a Sears shop vac with a HEPA filter.

PRO's:
It's plenty powerful for sanding and small electric tools
It's inexpensive

Cons:
Can't stand the hose- it's too heavy and inflexible. Sanding a big project with it attached causes a bit of muscle fatigue.
Its really stinking loud. Although I still wear ear protection while sanding, so I guess this doesn't matter much.
The filter clogs like crazy (need to supplement with a dust deputy or the like)
It's difficult to move around the shop. I've considered building a base with big inflated rubber tires on it so that it can roll over cords and stuff.

All said, I'd rather spend money upgrading other things. So I wear a dust mask.

Good luck!

[William C Rogers]

I wasn't trying to start anything. And as most determined I wasn't asking if Festool was worth the price. Not really knowing enough about dust extractors I was wondering what to consider between a shop vac with a hepa and the Festool or other brands. I got some very good responses. So, I plan on building two stationary shop vac "extractors" for dedicated small tools as bench sanders, band saws. To me it is a no brainer to use shop vac in that application. I need a third as a shop portable and honestly I will most likely do the shop vac to try it. I will build some type of base to make it somewhat compact and mobile. I will also look at improving the sealing areas. This will be a step up in dust collection and may not pass some test, but I believe I can get very close. No one said it won't work. I think the Festool is a great product, reliable, compact and ready to use out of the box and other advantages. Cost is a factor to me, but so is quality and ease. If the shop vac proves not reliable and hard to use I will buy a Festool or a Fein.

thanks for the responses

Bill

[Phil Thien]

Before I switched to a centrally-plumbed shop vac, I used my Ridgid WD1450 with a HEPA filter, a drywall bag, and a Fein hose. I got both the vac and the filter on sale, I probably have about $120 into the combination. The hose was $25 at a local Fein dealer. So maybe about $150 into the entire kit. Later I also purchased a $20 1" hose made by Porter Cable. The 1" hose is designed to work with the Porter Cable ROS and biscuit jointer.

The vac isn't variable speed, but I never really needed it to be. The PC ROS doesn't suck-down to whatever I'm sanding like some other sanders apparently do.

I don't doubt the Festools are extremely nice. I just wouldn't be able to justify the price given the gear I've already got.

I do know the Festool and Fein units are quieter, though. The Ridgid WD1450 is supposed to be their quiet model. And compared to older models, it really is. But it isn't as quiet as a Fein or Festool.

[Kevin Gagne]

Since the OP was considering a Festool I would assume that cost wasn't an issue and that they were looking to learn about the differences between it and a shop vac and understand why it cost more. All of the differences have been pointed out by the various posts. Whether or not you agree with the price it is very clear that there are some pretty big differences between the two. The OP needs to decide if these differences justify the price difference. No one else can decide that for them.

Seems like every time someone mentions Festool on this forum that are people that just jump in and say they are overpriced and not worth the money regardless of whether or not they have ever used them. Just because you can't afford something doesn't make it overpriced and not worth it. There is definitely a difference between an inexpensive power tool and a high end power tool. There is a reason it costs more. Everyone is free to spend their money as they would like. I am tired of the constant negative comments that seem to always to appear on the forum regarding high end tools whether it be Festool or some other brand.

[Kevin Gagne]

Stew,

I wasn't referring to you with any of my comments. Just a general frustration that I have with any Festool post that ends up on this forum.

That is a great square.

[Stew Hagerty]

Stew,

I wasn't referring to you with any of my comments. Just a general frustration that I have with any Festool post that ends up on this forum.

That is a great square.

No problem Kevin. This is actually my first Festool thread, so I'm just a newbie. I would however like to respond to one thing you said. Just because I think something is overpriced and not worth it doesn't mean I can't afford it.

And yes it is a great square, I use it just about every time I'm out in the shop. This is what I call my Woodpecker Wall:

2012-12-06_14-52-02_879.jpg Can you find all 13?

And I have many many more of their wonderful things.

[Steve Milito]

I find it highly unlikely that any amount of modification would make a shop vac perform as well as a real dust extractor after having owned several shop vacs, a Fein, and a Festool vac. Perhaps you can get it 'good enough' for your needs, but the dust extractors are just designed for a higher level performance and to be attached to a tool though a small hose.

[Jeff Monson]

No problem Kevin. This is actually my first Festool thread, so I'm just a newbie. I would however like to respond to one thing you said. Just because I think something is overpriced and not worth it doesn't mean I can't afford it.

And yes it is a great square, I use it just about every time I'm out in the shop. This is what I call my Woodpecker Wall:

2012-12-06_14-52-02_879.jpg Can you find all 13?

And I have many many more of their wonderful things.

Holly woodpeckers Stew, you have some nice squares! I love the woodpeckers products also, yes they are pricey, but worth every penny IMO. I have the same opinion of Festool products also.

[Don Morris]

I'm a serious hobbiest on a fixed income. I would buy Lie Nielsen, Festool etc. all the time if I could. Can't. But don't tell me I haven't seen top quality work come out of shops from contractor saws and less than LN tools, etc. It's the wwer not the tool and accessories. Take a look at some of the beautiful antiques. They didn't have any of the modern stuff. The high end stuff makes sense if you can. I would if I could.

[Kevin Gagne]

I'm a serious hobbiest on a fixed income. I would buy Lie Nielsen, Festool etc. all the time if I could. Can't. But don't tell me I haven't seen top quality work come out of shops from contractor saws and less than LN tools, etc. It's the wwer not the tool and accessories. Take a look at some of the beautiful antiques. They didn't have any of the modern stuff. The high end stuff makes sense if you can. I would if I could.

Don, yes someone with lesser tools that is skilled can still make quality items. But for me anyways I have noticed that with some of the nicer tools that I have purchased my quality of work has improved. For example I can cut a full sheet of plywood much better on my track saw then I can on a table saw.

To some extent I would say that better tools can make a average woodworker better because they are getting better results as far as cutting or milling.

[Matt Meiser]

I've got three CT22's. One is for the house, replacing a "portable" shop vac we kept in the garage for about 8 years. My wife uttered the words "I love this vacuum." while using it when we were working on our kitchen remodel. That should tell you something there. One of my CT22's has a boom arm and Dust Deputy and lives near my bench but easily moves around as needed. The third lives under my miter saw.

At a minimum if I ever went back to a traditional shop vac (and I don't know why I would) I'd throw away any shop vac hose and buy a good hose, not the semi-flexible pipes they include. I briefly had a non-Antistatic Festool hose and it reminded me how nice the antistatic feature is.

The boom arm--to me if you want to sell someone on Festool, give them a sander and vac for a week and let them use it. The second week, add a boom arm. Bet they buy it all on the third. Sure you could make something. I bet by the time you engineer and reengineer the thing a few times to get the kinks worked out you won't save much.

Nice used CT22's seem to come up pretty regularly. I've bought 3 for $175-$250 excluding shipping and depending on accessories. The lowest one I bought online and when it arrived I felt wasn't as described and the $175 was a negotiated price reduction. I resold that one when I had the opportunity to do a 3-way deal that got me a nicer one for little cash. It was fully functional as intended, just not very pretty (and it was the one for the house so...) I really haven't read much about long-term issues with the CT series vacs and obviously don't have problem buying them myself. If you want to save money, buy a used one. Just keep in mind the cost of replacing the filters if needed (buy Hepa ones if you do) and buying a hose if one isn't included.

[Stew Hagerty]

Don, yes someone with lesser tools that is skilled can still make quality items. But for me anyways I have noticed that with some of the nicer tools that I have purchased my quality of work has improved. For example I can cut a full sheet of plywood much better on my track saw then I can on a table saw.

To some extent I would say that better tools can make a average woodworker better because they are getting better results as far as cutting or milling.

If I remember right, Shopsmith used to to say something like "the precision is in the machine" in their TV comercials.