Observations on Euro style sliding saws

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Because I've been asked multiple times in the last week in other threads, I thought it better to start a thread dedicated to this subject. There is a lot of misinformation, conjecture and pure guesses floating around out there on the subject of slider saws. I think a thread where us owners or users could simply post our experiences, why we made the decision, etc would be helpful to some. Many people seem to have never even seen one in captivity, so basic stuff is great, like how do you rip? Pics would be useful if you feel so inclined.

I know it has been touched on before, but there are always new people here that want to know, and new questions.

[Jim Foster]

+1 on this topic, really like to know more about switching to a European saw, what was great about it, what was a surprise... Dust collection capabilities for specific saws.

[J.R. Rutter]

On a short stroke slider - like 50": Is there a crosscut fence design that will let you slide the crossbar out of the way for ripping, then move it back without losing calibration? Not interested in removing a fence completely...

[Mike Heidrick]

For the owners - here are some questions I have....

I want to know about the working around/standing around a long slider or the trade off of having a short feeder.

I want to know about ripping and how you do it, more importantly the second rip cut. I understand straight line ripping on the slider. Then do you set it up against the fence for the second cut? If so how are you continuing the cut through the blade after the board seperates from what is on the fence - ? push stick, feeder, what?

We really need video how to guides on this to show how you can stand so far away from the blade. Does your table and accessories get in the way?

I want to hear about all the setup time and air jigs many have for their saws. Also talk about access to power on and off buttons and mods you have done to enable that to be safer. In lesser slider saws (Hammer/500 series) are the buttons standard on the sliding table ends?
Did you add those? Any issues with where those are? Did you add quick off paddles of any kind? Estops?

I want to know why you bought one rather than just using a tracksaw? I can see guys who deal with sheet goods all the time. For the hardwood only guys why did you do this?

Do you own a NA tablesaw too for ripping or dados?

Have you ever been cut on your slider?

I also have never seen a slider manufacturer talk about how safe their saw is. Why is that?

What does a hammer with a big sliding table cost?

What does a 700 series with a big sliding table cost?

[Mike Heidrick]

JR - on my short shaper slider table there are flip up blocks that allow you to rotate the crosscut fence out of the way and then return it back to 90 degrees. The rotating mechanism has detens for angles other than 90 as well. Between the two you can get most any angle repeatable.

[David Kumm]

I have a Rockwell 12-14, Hammond trim saw-18" crosscut, 78" slider, and 120" slider. I have the room - kind of- and like all but would have a tough time with only one. The crosscut fence on a short slider is often in the way. You want to get used to positioning the fence in the back position so at least short-3ft or so pieces don't need fence removal. The ability to remove and replace the fence at exactly where it needs to go is huge. A deal breaker when buying. The fence is seldom an issue with a long slider. I modified a short table for the front with a flip up positioner long long rips. Many saws have accessories so when you put a board that has been straight line ripped against the back fence you can flip up a stop in front as a reference and then rip from the slider side. Mac Campshure has some good videos on www.airtightclamps.com showing sheet goods and ripping using a big slider and his pneumatic clamps. His clamps are sweet. A long slider is difficult to rip with the traditional fence- at least to me. Others have gotten used to it. I haven't had to and still run over to the regular saw when I need a quick rip. I keep about four grrippers on the saw so I don't need to fiddle with them to fit- one is always ready. I put my own on off buttons on the slider as my older saws didn't have them. Between Mc Master Carr and ebay it costs under $100 to add a convenient switch.

If you are space challenged it is a pain to squeeze around a slider you don't have room for and you do need room- not only front to back but left of the saw for crosscutting. My little Hammond is a go to saw when just doing furniture work. Only cuts at 90 but dead on and doesn't take up much room. I can use a dado on the 78" slider but it requires some readjustment of the fence, and some other minor fiddling. I use the slider dado for cabinets but often go to the Rockwell and leave the dado in. Big tables and most carcasses and drawers reference just fine off the rip fence. If I had to give one saw up it would be the 78" slider but it also has a shaper and is handy for that reason.

Hammer machines are great for the price although I'd buy a used long slider before a long Hammer. You want weight and strength when dealing with sheet goods. At least the Felder and MM levels. Used sliders are all over the place and so cheap I'd look at them. Felder K975, SCMI SI16, 3200, 320, S300, Casadei K3000-3200, Casolin, Martin, etc. Altendorf you need to watch for the one with phenolic ways and the ones from China. A good used commercial saw can be had for 4-6K fairly easily. Expect another 500-1000 for stuff you want to fix or improve. New Chinese sliders-Biesse, Oliver, etc are all made at a plant owned by Biesse and go for about 12K. New SCMI will be in the 14-15K range same as the 900 Felder series. The 700 will be around 10-12 but others will know better as I'm more of a used guy. Dave

[ian maybury]

Mentioned on the other thread - but there's a bit of set up in a slider. It's maybe wise unless you're good at that stuff to make sure that whatever one you buy is likely to come accurately set up.

ian

[Steve Milito]

Are there videos that demonstrate how to use a slider, at least the things that are different from a conventional TS?

[Jeff Monson]

Are there videos that demonstrate how to use a slider, at least the things that are different from a conventional TS?

There are a couple videos on the Felder site that demonstrate the x-roll slider. You can get some basics concepts from the video on how they work, plus different setups for different operations.

[Hank Hill]

I also have never seen a slider manufacturer talk about how safe their saw is. Why is that?

What does a hammer with a big sliding table cost?

What does a 700 series with a big sliding table cost?

The Felder salesmen talk about safety in a big way. It's one of the first things they generally mention if you call and ask about Hammer machines, mainly because they're really competiting against SawStop as much as they are other sliders.

A Hammer with a big slider, the K4 (which is designed to compete against Mini-Max), has a price of $9500 before discounts + shipping and accesssories. The Felder K700 Professional ends up at $12000 with the large slider, again before discounts and shipping. Accessories end up at $500 to $2000 very quickly.

[Mark Bolton]

This topic has been covered extensively and in extreme detail numerous times and is in the archives.

Other that the space constraints there is little we ever go to a conventional saw for. The slider is the workhorse in the shop. Breaking down sheet goods, straight lining hardwoods, glue line rips, dados, all shine on a slider. In some areas you adjust your work to accommodate its advanced capabilities but its a pretty minimal adjustment and the safety is head and shoulders above.

[James Baker SD]

See post #11 in this thread. There are listed safety features of a slider. European Table Saw vs Conventional Table Saw like Saw Stop

[Bill Neely]

I have a Laguna TSS, probably the runt of the litter but it works well for me, I bought it used at a very reasonable price - even better. The saw can do anything a conventional saw can do and safer. I made a ripping jig (someone posted it here on SMC) that clamps to the slider and makes ripping multiple pieces of something like rails and stiles easy, safe and fast.

With the TSS the accessory 'positive miter stop table' is a must, the original setup isn't robust so when removing and replacing the cc fence it can be knocked out of square easily. The accessory table makes that problem disappear plus you get presets for angle cuts. The old style TSS was equipped with a Beis style fence that was very heavy and clunky, I replaced mine with a modified Unifence. Works better for me.

I've cut the heads off Quick-Grip clamps and welded on pieces of 1 1/4" by 5/16" bar that slides into the slots on the slider, also used the same stock to make other clamping jigs. It really speeds things up.

Positives:

Dust collection is good with a shrouded blade (scoring blade is also shrouded) and overhead dust collection through the guard.

Easy to change blades, drop a pin in to lock the arbor, move the slider back to expose the blade area, unclip the hinged part of the blade guard and change the plate - same routine for the scoring blade.

With a 5/8" arbor runs standard dado set, 10 or 12 inch tooling of your choice.

Cons:

Riving knife is hard to set up, I very seldom remove it so I don't use the dado often.

Having to spend an extra 378 bucks to get an accurate cc fence is a little over the top.

Overall I would never consider going back to a conventional tablesaw, a slider simply will do so much more, faster with more accuracy.

[Stephen Cherry]

One aspect of the sliding saw that cannot be overstated it the relative safety. In normal use, your hands are nowhere near the blade. There is usually a riving knife, so kickback is pretty hard to do, there is real dust collection above and below the blade.

One typical critisism is that you can't really stand right in front of the blade when you rip, BUT of all the places you could stand, that is the last place to be. Much safer to be out of the "line of fire".

[Erik Loza]

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