Trying to decide how much dust collection I need (long)

[Noel Poore]

Hi everyone

I have a basement workshop with 92" to the bottom of the joists. I have a table saw (with Shark Guard +4" port), jointer, tabletop planer, bandsaw and midi lathe. My current setup is a Penn State "2hp" bag collector. I run two 4" clear flexible hoses. One goes to the Shark Guard, the other I move to whichever machine I am using. The dust collector sits in the middle of the basement space with the machines around it. Everything can be reached easily with a 10' hose. I also have a Dust Deputy on my shop vac, which I love. We will probably move house in a few years once the children are all through college, and I hope to be able to have a larger shop with actual daylight, so I want to bear that in mind when spending money on dust collection.

I know that the bags on the current collector need to go. Having recently acquired a lathe, I've especially noticed that collecting dust from lathe sanding basically doesn't work - too much dust comes back out of the bags. What I am going backwards and forwards on is the best way to fix this. I could upgrade the current collector with a Wynn filter and add a separator. The cheapest way to do this would be to make a Thien top hat, although the new plastic Super Dust Deputy looks tempting as well. This would mean spending up to about $500. I'm thinking that this would get me something that is good enough for my current situation, but probably wouldn't stretch to a future larger workshop.

So I could consider going for a Grizzly/Oneida/ClearVue cyclone system. A lot more money, but a lot more dust collector as well, which would hopefully be the last collector I need to buy. Given the height constraints of the basement, I would not necessarily plan to install permanent ducting at this stage. Is running a 2/3hp cyclone with flexible hose like I do now a good idea? A big concern I have is noise. Everyone talks about how loud a cyclone is. With the current setup, my wife is happy enough to deal with the noise from the dust collector downstairs by turning up the volume on the TV/iPod/whatever. Anything which makes more noise than my current setup is probably impractical. I see that a number of people have built closets for their cyclones to reduce the noise to something that is acceptable for them. If I ended up having to do that, I would build a closet in the corner of the basement and then would probably run 6" duct to the middle of the basement. The problem with that is that there are hot air heating ducts between the best (in fact, almost the only) place to put the closet and where the woodworking machines are, so running 6" duct underneath those might lead to headroom issues.

I've been turning this over and over in my mind for a couple of months now, and have definitely reached the point of "analysis paralysis" - there does not seem to be a solution which is obviously much better than the others. I've read many of the dust collection posts on sawmillcreek and other web sites, which has given me lots more information, but have not helped me reach a conclusion yet. I have found someone fairly local who is willing to show me their ClearVue so I could get an impression of how noisy it is compared to my current setup, and maybe that will help with one aspect of this decision.

Thoughts and advice appreciated. Hearing about other people's experiences, successes, regrets etc often helps when you can't make up your mind.

Noel

P.S. Sorry for the length of this - I wanted to include the relevant information, and it kind of grew...

[jason harris]

I can empathise with your situation. Having read Bill's site I have caused myself a lot of heartache over dust extraction going back and forwards for at least a couple of years.

I would like to get a cyclone and from what I read the clearvue could be the better of the options you listed. I ended up housing mine outside for now. Not an option for you I realise. If I had to have it inside I would get the cyclone for sure.

With the extractor outside it is also obvious that what is left around the workshop is the dust not being collected at the source and that should be a consideration for you. I am planning to soon draw up some plans for making new attachments on to my machines to help with this.

[Jim Andrew]

I doubt there is a lot of difference in the noise from a cyclone to your current dc. You don't list your machines so hard to recommend CV or 3hp other brand. Sanders seem to take the most dust collection capacity. Think the fine dust is harder to get hold of. It just sprays all over. Sure, a 6" system would work better than 4" hoses. Even if you ran 6" with your old dc you would see an improvement.

[Phil Thien]

I doubt there is a lot of difference in the noise from a cyclone to your current dc.

Oh don't be so sure about that. Cyclones can be substantially louder than a single-stage DC. The net is full of posts from people that were gobsmacked by the noise level of a new cyclone compared to their old single stage.

There are lots of solutions (boxing it in, exhausting outside if possible, etc.). But keep noise in mind during the design phase to prevent disappointment.

[Paul Wunder]

The advantage of the Clearvue is that 92" in a basement is not a problem. I have only 90" and my motor/blower assembly hangs between my joists. I also used a 35 gallon dust bin from Penn State to accommodate my lessened height. The CV is powerful, and while not usually recommended, could you consider permanent duct rums along the exterior walls with machine drops of hard/flexible pipes to your machines? With some careful planning this may work. I have similar constraints and had to run a 50' main run with takeoffs with success.

[Ole Anderson]

Yesterday I had to fix some glued up raised panels I blew out on the router and I can't remember how many times I went from the MS to the jointer to the TS to get matching pieces to redo the glue up. SO nice to just leave the DC running and pull or push a blast gate to redirect the suction. Never would have happened if I had been dragging my old two bagger around. My suggestion? Bite the bullet and get a 3 hp cyclone, run a 7" main, install drops sized for your machines and start enjoying what a real dust collection system has to offer. Put the cyclone in a closet lined with Roxul safe and sound insulation and knock close to 10 db off the noise level. I have 92" to the bottom of my joists, so I located my Oneida so the motor sits between them.

[David Kumm]

Noise is a function of impeller diameter and blade design. Get what you think you really need. You can always add a silencer for about $100 to the outlet and or hang an acoustical blanket around the unit. Most of the noise comes through the filters. I run the loudest impeller in the history of the world and the silencer and blanket really made a huge difference. Dave

[Noel Poore]

Thanks for the comments everyone. ClearVue found me a reference customer who lives about 10minutes from my house, and he was kind enough to show me his setup yesterday evening. I've decided to go with a CV1800 and will probably build a small closet in the corner of the basement. The collector should be here in 10 days. Can't wait to start on the installation.

Noel

[Noel Poore]

David

Please can you tell me more about the silencer? Also, which kind of acoustic blankets do you use?

Noel

[Paul Wunder]

Noel,

Try Roxul batts "Safe n Sound" (2'X4'X3"). Check out the soundproofing video on the ClearVue web site

[Brad Sperr]

Noise is a function of impeller diameter and blade design. Get what you think you really need. You can always add a silencer for about $100 to the outlet and or hang an acoustical blanket around the unit. Most of the noise comes through the filters. I run the loudest impeller in the history of the world and the silencer and blanket really made a huge difference. Dave

If you haven't already, check out the forums and picture galleries over at Clearvue's website. You get a lot of good ideas for installation.