Toothing your bench?

[David Weaver]

I like a messy bench, too. I never finish the top of mine and don't worry about a stray chisel strike. Should I ever replace it with something better, I'll do the same.

I've gotten a lot of glue, finish, metal dust, etc on it and I've never had to use more than a coarse card scraper and a chisel.

And as charlie says, with all of the other appropriate options to hold work down, this seems to be another blog post that solves a problem most of us don't have, save those who religiously wax their bench until there's a sheen. I couldn't tooth my bench and make problems (abrasives, etc) when toothing solves problems I don't have.

What do you do when you're finish planing something on both sides? With no tooth, it's pretty easy to quickly brush away offending stuff that might ding the face of a board, I can't for the life of me figure out why someone would make it easier for their bench to hold onto scuzz.

George's comment that he's never seen anyone do it is quite enough. Who here has been exposed to more competent craftsmen working traditionally than George?

[Sean Hughto]

You have to meet someone to have something against them? That's nonsense.

The comments have not been limited to the substance of his proposition. They have quite clearly drifted into ad hominem attacks and personal slights.

One can be pro-Schwarz and not pro-benchtop toothing. I see benchtop toothing as a solution in search of a problem. I have no issues with work sliding around my maple benchtop coated with BLO. That said, I have no problem with Chris endorsing the practice. Whatever works for him.

[Joe Leigh]

George's comment that he's never seen anyone do it is quite enough.

Are you suggesting that once George makes his opinion known that no further discussion need take place?
That his observation alone should be "quite enough?" Really?

Well, that would save a lot of bandwidth....

[george wilson]

Alice,it is perhaps a good idea to be suspicious of government. Indeed,if you live in England. When I was there,I could not wait to get back to the USA. 2" cockroaches in my refrigerator,impossible to drive anywhere at all(better take the train if you expect to go somewhere). A great number of empty first class coaches being pulled by law,while the rest of us stand up for lack of space (WHY do the French run the British railway system???). Wiring and plumbing that doesn't work,even in a 5 star hotel (The Glouster Millennium) in the middle of London),with 9 hours for their staff to turn on my mini fridge,and they still couldn't do it. The World's WORST pizza!!!! A $45.00 Leatherman for 99 pounds= $160.00+. I could go on. Northern Italy was totally better( Florence was as far South as we went).

And,WHY are the trains allowed to stop in the station on ANY convenient track,while the big board says your train is on track 17? And NONE of the railway employees know which train is which? Yes,I would be very suspicious of government if I lived in the U.K.!!

[David Weaver]

Are you suggesting that once George makes his opinion known that no further discussion need take place?
That his observation alone should be "quite enough?" Really?

Well, that would save a lot of bandwidth....

I would frame it more as acquisition of accurate and useful information, not to squelch discussion. In a bloggers vs. reality, yes, George wins. In knowledge, application of the knowledge, design, accomplishments, you name it.

You can discuss it as long as you want, though, there's no condition that you can't discuss something that's even absolutely wrong. Just don't expect the odds to be in your favor if you have chosen "Blog Team" vs. people who practice craft for a living.

As a practical matter, I do usually ask George a question offline if I have something where I feel like the right answer is critical. Even if George called me a ___ and told me I was a hack every time I called him with a question, I'd still ask him. I'm concerned about getting the right answer and not trying to keep in good standing with Digital Social Club.

[Charlie Stanford]

I like a messy bench, too. I never finish the top of mine and don't worry about a stray chisel strike. Should I ever replace it with something better, I'll do the same.

I've gotten a lot of glue, finish, metal dust, etc on it and I've never had to use more than a coarse card scraper and a chisel.

And as charlie says, with all of the other appropriate options to hold work down, this seems to be another blog post that solves a problem most of us don't have, save those who religiously wax their bench until there's a sheen. I couldn't tooth my bench and make problems (abrasives, etc) when toothing solves problems I don't have.

What do you do when you're finish planing something on both sides? With no tooth, it's pretty easy to quickly brush away offending stuff that might ding the face of a board, I can't for the life of me figure out why someone would make it easier for their bench to hold onto scuzz.

George's comment that he's never seen anyone do it is quite enough. Who here has been exposed to more competent craftsmen working traditionally than George?

I just re-read the Scwharz article and he clearly states he is toothing to improve grip. In the replies somebody asks a question about whether this caused problems with trapped particles, etc. and Schwarz' terse reply, verbatim, was "Roughness is better. Period. I've never had a problem with it."

"I've never had a problem with it" seems to imply the passage of a long amount of time (or should, at least). Wonder if that's true...

[george wilson]

Joe,I don't know Chris's age,but I doubt he's more than in in his early 40's. I was a paid professional master craftsman working with a group of other masters in Williamsburg for 39 years. When I came there,I had already worked for years,and my work was good enough to be selected to become a master. That harpsichord above was made at age 29. It means nothing to you,I suppose,what went into it.

I always made things. I did not spend half my time writing articles and editing. I studied books I could not have had access to without being in the museum. I went on behind the scenes visits to other museums. Spent several days at a time studying at the Smithsonian in their restoration department,where I could see original instruments taken apart. Worked in an elite group of other master craftsmen.(who do you know that can hand forge a rifle barrel from a flat bar,hand bore and rifle it? Possibly no one,because there are about 3 in the country who can do it. One of them worked for me).

Yes,I have been around.

I really do not want this discussion to degenerate into a fight. When,in post #27,I stated several reasons why I would not tooth my bench,I clearly said this was not about personalities.

[Joe Leigh]

Not many here would question your expertise George, least of all me. Your skill level far eclipses my own. My issue concerns the belief that simply because someone has a blog that somehow their opinion caries less weight than your own or that of another "master".

I subscribe to the blogs of several very skilled artisans whose opinions on tools and technique vary greatly.

The idea of "toothing" a benchtop is new to me. I was interested in hearing various opinions on the pros and cons of doing so not because I'm interested in doing it myself, but because reading about different woodworking tecniques appeals to me. It seems as though this discussion went south quickly after Mr. Schwarz's name was brought up.

[george wilson]

Repeat: I said this was not about personalities in my first post. Not responsible for other posts,but can't help being amused by "lemmings" and some other things said. I was judged and accepted as a master by a large group of museum craftsmen,curators and research scholars. I don't know if he was.

Maybe others would (rightly) poke fun at me if I suggested gluing sand paper all over a bench top? Sure would improve grip,but I thought that was what tail vises and hold fasts were for.

[Charlie Stanford]

Mr. Schwarz heard about it, did it, now he suggests that you to do it too, because "it works, period." Read the comments and his replies on the blog.

There actually has been more discussion about the technique in this thread than there was in Mr. Schwarz' own blog - both in the original blog entry and in his responses to comments.

Otherwise, I think you should sharpen with oil-stones. Because they work. Period.

[Charlie Stanford]

I would frame it more as acquisition of accurate and useful information, not to squelch discussion. In a bloggers vs. reality, yes, George wins. In knowledge, application of the knowledge, design, accomplishments, you name it.

You can discuss it as long as you want, though, there's no condition that you can't discuss something that's even absolutely wrong. Just don't expect the odds to be in your favor if you have chosen "Blog Team" vs. people who practice craft for a living.

As a practical matter, I do usually ask George a question offline if I have something where I feel like the right answer is critical. Even if George called me a ___ and told me I was a hack every time I called him with a question, I'd still ask him. I'm concerned about getting the right answer and not trying to keep in good standing with Digital Social Club.

I spewed coffee.... funny stuff!! You're on today.

[Mike Tekin]

This is getting a little silly. Chris Schwartz wrote about a recommendation and despite what anyone has said, it seems to be clearly personal attacks that are going on here. Why hasn't Patrick Edwards who this whole article was based on discussed?

I personally think the toothed bench looks like garbage but I'm not going to harp about it for nine pages...

I thought woodworking was a craft where there are many ways to achieve one objective/task

[george wilson]

Don't think I wouldn't be attacked for suggesting exactly the same thing. I get attacked by jealous people just for putting up pictures of decent work. On another forum, I am now being attacked viciously by a jerk who thinks ALL modern machinists should be CNC machinists,period. I put up some hand filed flintlock pistols as examples of where CNC leaves off. He's totally LOST it!! I can't repeat here the names he's calling me!! And all because I believe in preserving craftsmanship. I certainly don't distain CNC work. We'd not have our standard of living without it. I think there's room for everything. He doesn't. He has no art in him.

[Charlie Stanford]

I hear 'ya brother.