CNC Router Parts, 48x96 Questions

[Brian Martin Pennsylvania]

Hello Everyone,
I'm thinking about buying a CNC router parts 48" x96" router and I had some questions. I will be using this router for commercial work of cutting 18" x .750" x .250" out of Kings Star Board which is HDPE. I've cut this material very easily with a Bosch hand router with a 1/8 bit. Has anyone have any experience with this company and has anyone used this machine 8 Hours a Day, 5 days a week. I've talked with Ahren Johnson at CNC router parts and I was extremely impressed with his customer service and knowledge of equipment, so that's a huge plus for me not to mention that these routers are built in the U.S.A. On a side note Ahren quoted me for the Nema 34 electronic kits and a porter cable 892 mount for industrial use. Any thoughts, should I be getting a liquid cooled spindle, 220 instead of 110, etc.
Thanks,
Brian

[seaver dave]

Brian

CNCrouterparts is a great company to do business with. Fast shipments and quality products. I built a 5" by 5" cutting area machine of my own design but used cnc router components--rack and pinion drive --gecko 540 setup- and the risers are excellent. Best advise make your machine base very solid and sturdy. Welded steel base makes all the difference. I did a post last fall with a few pics of my setup. There is an outfit in PA that sells the same parts/kits but not the same level of customer service--but if you're close enough you may be able to see the kits and parts. Fineline automation is the company name and they have a website.

I've been using a hatachi mv-12 router--works great but plan on moving up to a water cooled 3 hp spindle. I've been cutting mostly signs--plan on cutting out doll house kits soon.

Dave Seaver

[George Carlson]

I have one of the 1.5KW Chinese spindles. I have run it for as much as 5 hours continous, and it didn't even get warm. I use a small Flojet pump and a modified dirt bike radiator for cooling. The bucket of water idea never appealed to me. I really like being able to set the spindle speed in G-Code. I do a mix of Aluminum, FR-4, and wood. You would probably want the larger size with the ER20 spindle nose.

[Gene Crain]

Get the spindle with the ER20 collet. I have run files up to 35 hrs continuous with no problems, I have a 15 gallon tank with 50/50 mix of water and antifreeze.

[Brian Martin Pennsylvania]

I was doing some price shopping for the cost of a porter cable 892 and I'm better off buying a water cooled spindle. More hp and cost a little extra but I figured it will be worth it in the long run.

[Richard Coers]

You would have to buy PC 892s by the case running that much. And not to mention the noise! I run a MotionMaster 5 axis with a big HSD spindle for a day job. You don't even have to raise your voice to talk right next to it. You will need a controller for the spindle.

[Roy Nielsen]

Brian,

I've put in several orders from CNCRP as I was building my machine. Ahren was great at customer service and almost always same or next day shipping. I purchased his rack and pinion set for my X movement, some motor to 80/20 adapters and Acme nuts for my Y & Z movements, also some other miscellaneous hardware pieces. I only had a problem with one piece, a low profile bearing block, that I was able to modify myself and now works great.

You might want to investigate linear movement options for a big machine running 40 hours/week. I don't know how well those bearings would hold up under that amount of use.

Roy

[Jerome Stanek]

Roy what size do you have and how much do you have in it? Are you cutting yet

[Mike Heidrick]

I built the 4848cncrp for a friend. I also run a 4X4 Joes castcnc myself with a 2.2kw chinese spindle and a closed loop pump radiator resv setup. Not sure what you mean by the machine is built in the USA?? - It will be assembled in the USA (by you) using domestic and foreign parts LOL. Design your base as strong and stout as you can. Adding legs to Ahren's bed is not enough. Go welded box steel minimum. 892 routers are lousy - I would do a M12VC over it anyday and it is quieter but that is not commercial in any way. If you want a better router go for a 7518 but again I am not a huge fan of routers anymore on cnc. If you use a router 8 hours a day on a CNC you will be going through the bearings. I did it with a Hitachi M12 and I just do the work as a hobby. If you go water cooled or air cooled spindle you will be buying a VFD - the 2.2kw spindles are typically 400hz and 3 phase. You will spend quite a bit more but they are super quiet and will have 3-4 bearings. Dust collection and the bit cutting in wood are whats loud though so who knows if you will make a audible difference to you. I still wish Ahren's design did not use skate bearings on flat steel rails. I dont like that idea personally. I am a vertical V rail guy. I do like his steel gantry risers and the 3060 extrusion he uses. I can see why you would need nema 34 but some folks like it. I use nema23 and the G540 setup. Going Nema34 and his Gecko G203s will require a bit more work on the controller. That nema34 setup is quite a bit more cash. Higher amperage capable setup but so far my 3.5amp limit on my 23 config has never been an issue. A great benefit of buying Ahrens mechanical kit is not over buying other parts in other DIY build (like my castcnc) - I really still have a lot of hardware left over after a few years now. Makes upgrading nice though. It took us 9 hours to assemble the 4848cncrp to the point of jogging all 3 axis and the base and controller was already done.

[Keith Outten]

I really disagree that noise is an issue between spindles and routers.
I operated two almost identical ShopBot machines for five years, one with a 4hp spindle and the other with a PC 7518 router.
Once you start machining the noise from the router bit is all I can hear, if my life depended on it I could not tell you whether a running machine had a spindle or a router once the bit hits the material in almost every case. Routing plywood will wake up the dead, Corian which is what we machine most of the time is also very noisy when cut with a router bit. I also use a lot of 3/4" thick PVC sheet in my shop which is pretty soft but cutting it still makes more noise than the machine.

I stood beside a lot of big iron CNC machines at IWF and they were about the same as the smaller machines. Once the router bit started cutting you couldn't hear the machine at all even when they were cutting MDF.

Spindles are very quiet, heck they almost whisper unless you are at a very high RPM but I don't see any advantage, especially when you consider the cost of a quality spindle over a router for small CNC machines. At $280.00 you can throw a PC 7518 in the trash can when the bearings are shot, install a new one in five minutes and be back making money. Its a bit more complicated to service the ceramic bearings in a spindle and a whole lot more expensive.

Where is the big advantage for small CNC owners?
.

[Jerome Stanek]

On the PC 7518 I have changed the bearings in about 20 minutes and back up and running for about $15 from Napa

[Keith Outten]

Jerome,

Since I don't do any hobby work the cost of a new 7518 is insignificant when it comes to my CNC Router being down during a job run. By the time I wear out the first set of bearings the router motor has paid for itself many many times so I keep a couple new 7518's on the shelf so I can change out the motor quick. Normally I give the used motor to a friend, they can replace the bearings and are happy to get a router for free, however I try to purchase the motors without the base to save a few bucks when I can.

Your right though, for the hobby CNC operator it is very inexpensive to replace the bearings yourself and get your machine running again.

In my world I don't run my CNC Router all day long five days a week. The bulk of my work only requires me to machine door sign plaques two to three days per month but when I run em I cannot afford to stop for maintenance. From my CNC Router the next step is laser engraving so I have to keep feeding the laser constantly to keep on schedule because there are several steps after the engraving process. The remaining work days in a typical month I CNC machine other types of signs like stairwell, area of refuge, etc. There are less of these signs so the timing isn't as critical and even though the specialty signs are more expensive the bulk of the profit comes from door signs because there are generally hundreds of them in every job.
.

[Jerome Stanek]

If you have two 7518 you can change them out and install the bearings at your leisure. I find that by replacing the bearings more often the router runs a lot smoother. On my cnc I have an hsd air cooled spindle but have 3 of the PC for other stuff. I love the spindle as it is a lot quieter than the the router even when it is cutting.

[Mike Heidrick]

A 7518 is about the same price as a watercooled chineses spindle body (not VFD or watercooling setup). If you wear it out you change just it - water cooling and VFD stay but Ireally doubt you will wear one out. You get 4 bearings that are much larger than the two in the 7518 or any router. You also get speed control and direction control in Gcode by using a VFD. Even after 8 hours they are still cool to the touch. Plus you get true ER20 collets for whatever size bits you want to run (or endmills) and not limit yourself to Precisebits CRAZY high collet prices. And these are not even HSD or Columbo spindles, just plain old chinese imports, and still you get amazing performance. MUCH better than a 7518 anyday.

[Keith Outten]

Honestly I'm not really questioning anyone else's experience other than my own. I operated two almost identical machines for five years, the only difference was one had an air cooled spindle and the other a PC 7518 router. The spindle did heat up the same as the router over the same periods of running time. We had to idle the spindle at the end of the day for about 30 minutes to cool it down before we could cut the machine off. It wasn't because of wear, this was the case when it was new.

The warmup procedure for the spindle was a pain that we just had to deal with, the 7518 is basically start and go and it doesn't have to be warmed up again if the machine sits idle for a long time.

I'm not convinced that heat is as big an enemy in this case as it might be in another circumstance. Modern bearings are pretty high-tech with permanent lubrication that is pretty reliable over a long period of time. The manufacturers specs for the ceramic bearings in the spindle we had at CNU were pretty vague but they did provide a stern warning about following the warm up procedure. FWIW this spindle was $2,800.00 so it wasn't cheap IMO. It was very heavy so the logistics of removing it and shipping it to a repair facility was not attractive. The down time would have been a major problem in this case.

I have zero electrical/electronics expertise so my concerns may very well be much different than those of you who are able to deal with VFD failures. Once again the VFD is another component that can be expensive to repair and impossible to diagnose if you don't have the skills. Maybe this sheds some light on why I really appreciate how simple and quick it is to dump a cheap PC 7518 router, install a new one and get back to work in a matter of minutes.

My mechanical skill-set is a whole different situation. I have spent the majority of my life working with and around mechanical devices. Everything from small engine repair to devices for the space program and nuclear power plants. I am more than qualified to remove a router motor and transport it to the trash can
.