Opinions on G0441 fines seperation for hobbiest

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

I am about to pull the trigger on a cyclone. I had my mind set on the Clearvue - mainly for the separation aspects of the cyclone and the bang for the buck. I also like the small footprint and the fact it is a kit.

However, I have the opportunity to buy a new in box w/warranty Grizzly G0441 for $1295 (+$100 shipping). The only reason I am considering it (not that it isn't an excellent machine) is the considerable savings - which goes up if considering the included remote and dust bin. (I missed the included electrical bow and remote that expired Monday from Clearvue.)

I am positive I would be happy with the G0441. But... I am wondering if the separation is that much better on the Clearvue. Also, are the included filters better with the Clearvue - from what I have read they are.

I am not trying to start a Cleavue vs Grizzly shootout - I know why the CV costs more - but will the G0441 be lacking in any way. BTW - I will only be using one machine at a time.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Just my two cents. I have a 3 HP dust collector it works very well. If I was going replace it for a personal shop I would go with the Clearvue. It was my first choice right when Ed stop making them. You can make your own dust bin sensor and remote control from info on Sawmill Creek. Tom

[Ralph Butts]

i would be the last person to not be in favor of saving some bucks. However when it comes to my health that is one place I would not let a few hundred dollars dissuade me from purchasing what IMHO is a better performing machine. Get the machine that is going to save your lungs for years to come. I bet if you called the guys at CV they might even extend the special for you. Just my two cents hopefully I don't provoke a shootout discussion either just my opinions based upon the researching I did when purchasing my own cyclone.

[Paul Wunder]

The Grizz is a good machine with good separation (per American Woodworker magazine comparison from 2006). I almost bought that one but chose the CV (the Grizz was too tall). You'll be happy with both, but the CV has about five times the filter area which should keep the filters cleaner, longer. At $150+ per filter the price advantage could disappear. I copied the following from Bill Pentz's website re filter size and "loading." I hope that Bill doesn't mind:

"Filter sizing is generally done based on recommendations from the filter makers based upon the fineness of the filter, the amount of airflow and amount of dust to be filtered. The medical experts recommend we filter wood dust to at least 0.5-microns unless we have a known allergy or other respiratory problem then we should filter to HEPA filtering level which is using filters individually certified to provide 99.97% efficiency in filtering off particles 0.3-microns and larger. The main filter makers say the 0.5-micron polyester cellulose blended filters need a minimum of one square foot of filtering area for every 2 CFM of air carrying this much fine dust. The thicker all spun bond material 0.5-micron filter material can get by with one square foot of filter area for every four CFM. If you read further the filter material makers further recommend using double the minimum filter area because that will reduce static pressure filter resistance four fold, extend filter life four fold, and reduce cleaning cycles four fold. Typical small shop dust collectors with bag type filters generally have less than 50 square feet of filter area when with their claimed 1000 CFM of airflow actually need about 250 square feet of these spun bond bag type filter area whether in a bag or cartridge. Most small shop cyclones claim 1000 CFM airflow and come with the poly cellulose blended cartridge filters that are typically under 250 square feet in area when they really need a minimum of at least 500 square feet of filter area. "

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

i would be the last person to not be in favor of saving some bucks. However when it comes to my health that is one place I would not let a few hundred dollars dissuade me from purchasing what IMHO is a better performing machine. Get the machine that is going to save your lungs for years to come.

Health is the only reason - my HF with Wynn filter keeps the shop plenty clean. Also, my boys are starting to take am interest and keeping them safe... well you know.

More filter area, better separation, American made 5hp motor, no need to upgrade in the future were my reasons for my initial decision on the CV. I plan on doing this for at least another 25 years and the price amortized over this period is minimal. Health - no price can be put on that.

[Rick Moyer]

I don't know what the price difference is between the 0441 and the CV, but any cyclone isn't the be all/end all. You will still have some dust floating. Maybe the best value is the 0441 and an air cleaner. I am still waiting for my JDS Air-tech HP, three months later, but I have a 440 and think I will be good when the JDS gets here. Wear a respirator most of the time, at least until the air clears, and you should be good.

[David Kumm]

Generally bags can handle more pressure than cartridges so you can't compare sq ft between the two. To really compare apples to apples the Grizzly should have a second cartridge. The motor is close to 5 hp and the impeller is pretty much the same. Nano filter better than spun bond but in fairness spun bond has been and still is used commercially. Grizzly isn't known for their great motors but the CV Leeson is a smaller frame ODP than what you typically see in a 5 hp motor. Smaller shaft, smaller bearings. At the end of the day the CV is the better separator but unless you are running a sander you won't see much difference. By the time you add the filter you will have close to the same money in it and still not have nano cartridges though. I don't know if the $150 off would be enough to go Grizz but then i found a used Torit 20-5 and put three nano on it for $1000 so I'm biased. Dave

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

Rick,

I've got the ambient air cleaner and wear a respirator with my current set up (single stage, internal Thein, Wynn filter). I know that a cyclone is not everything - CFM at the machine is - and both of these machines can acheive that. Just kind of hoping that with some proper hood upgrades and greater CFM the need for the respirator will decrease. I am thinking about getting a Dylos so I know exactly what is going on.

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

Generally bags can handle more pressure than cartridges so you can't compare sq ft between the two. To really compare apples to apples the Grizzly should have a second cartridge. The motor is close to 5 hp and the impeller is pretty much the same. Nano filter better than spun bond but in fairness spun bond has been and still is used commercially. Grizzly isn't known for their great motors but the CV Leeson is a smaller frame ODP than what you typically see in a 5 hp motor. Smaller shaft, smaller bearings. At the end of the day the CV is the better separator but unless you are running a sander you won't see much difference. By the time you add the filter you will have close to the same money in it and still not have nano cartridges though. I don't know if the $150 off would be enough to go Grizz but then i found a used Torit 20-5 and put three nano on it for $1000 so I'm biased. Dave

Exactly - I have come to the same conclusions myself. In my reply to Rick I stated that CFM is what we are all striving for. Both machines give that. I could replace the stock Grizz filter with the Wynn filter I have and buy another one with what I get when I sell my current setup. But will I be cleaning the filters more often? Especially when I decide to purchase a sander in the future.

Conversely, I could use the money I receive from the sale towards the duct work I need if I purchase the CV. That is what I am asking myself and only I can weigh that choice. In the end the price difference ($425 including shipping - if I can get CV to throw in the electrical box) will not matter much several years down the road.

This brings me to my question of what other owners of the Grizz find the separation to be. Thanks for the reply.

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

I just ordered the CV1800 with Nano filter upgrade. I called and asked if they would include the electrical box (which includes the remote) that was included as part of their President's Day sale - they obliged. (I had called and left a message last week which they confirmed.) After speaking with them today, I can confirm everything I have heard about their customer service - top notch.

I went with the CV mainly because of the better filters (filtering and square footage) which would have brought the Grizz's price to near that of the CV. Also, the CV footprint is a better match for my shop - I would have had to rearrange some cabinets to accommodate the Grizz.

One thing to note about the Grizz is that it does indeed appear to have a helical ramp similar to the CV. However, it looks like the ramp does not extend to the bottom of the inlet. Extending the ramp and sealing the ramp to the outlet tube would mimic the Pentz design. Just speculation, but maybe this variation is a way to get around paying any fees. Anyway, the $1300 price tag for the G0441 expired last night from Grizzly's ebay page.

I cannot wait.....

[Glenn Kotnik]

Several years I was shopping for a cyclone. I was attracted to the Grizz because of the low cost/CFM. I have a couple of Grizz machines which perform quite well however when I noticed the noise level on their DCs it was a real deal breaker for me. At that time at least, the noise was much higher from Grizz than competators, although I don't know about CV. Remember that for each 3 decibel increase the noise doubles.

[David Kumm]

Noise is a function of impeller diameter and shape. Blowers used in more current collectors are quiet and efficient at low pressure. Generally the louder the more cfm at higher pressure. Life is a trade off. There are ways to deaden the sound if you need to. Dave

[Steve Milito]

One thing to note about the Grizz is that it does indeed appear to have a helical ramp similar to the CV. However, it looks like the ramp does not extend to the bottom of the inlet. Extending the ramp and sealing the ramp to the outlet tube would mimic the Pentz design. Just speculation, but maybe this variation is a way to get around paying any fees. Anyway, the $1300 price tag for the G0441 expired last night from Grizzly's ebay page.

I believe the ramp extends far enough that there is no mixing with the intake air stream and thus it cuts the turbulence.

[Ed McEowen]

I've had a Grizzly G0441 for a little over a year. In that time I've never had to dump the fine dust from the bag under the filter (there's still not very much in it), but have probably dumped over 30 loads from the cyclone barrel (full size). It is a loud machine, but separation is better than good (unless you want the dust to go to the filter).

[Thomas Bank]

In the Wood Magazine Cyclone test thread I posted a link to the article that Oneida has up on their website: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...35#post2083135

As the WMCTT shows, there is a certain debate about what the article has to say. But might be worth taking a look at since the G0440 (the 2hp version) was one of the models tested.