Robust American Beauty vs. Powermatic 3520B

[Glen Blanchard]

Although I am not new to woodworking, I have been a lathe owner for only 9 months or so. I have always enjoyed making decorative boxes and wanted the ability to throw on a finial every once in a while. I bought a Delta 46-460 for this purpose. Since then I have done absolutely no flatwork!! If I'm in the shop, I'm turning. This has gotten me thinking about an eventual upgrade (which probably wont happen anytime soon, but I like to plan ahead). Now I am not a professional and never will be, but I am a serious hobbyist. I'll probably never turn massive bowls or vessels, but I don't want any regrets with my next lathe.

I went to SWAT last year and looked at the Robust line and really like the American Beauty. Who wouldn't?! It certainly has an impressive price tag though. The current Powermatic sale got me to look at the 3520B more than I ever have before. Dang, that thing would be like half the cost of the AB. I like the seemingly better access to the headstock end that the AB has and also the movable controls. I also really like the ability to swing the tailstock out of the way (optional). I don't know that I would ever use the greater swing of the AB however. I like the digital readout of the 3520B, and of course the price. The AB is the better of the two lathes, but the 3520B is a better value.

So here's my question, and I realize I will ultimately have to answer this for myself. That being said, I think I'd enjoy hearing the opinion of others. In spite of the fact that it sure is purty, why would I want to spend another $3,500+ (approx) for the AB?

[Fred Belknap]

Glen value is relative, I'm sure the AB is top of the line and it's value will hold up over time but the 3520B is the work horse of the lathe community. A lot more people have the Powermatic and I haven't heard very many complaints about it. I'm sure it would serve you well. The AB is made in USA and that is important to some. BTW I ordered the 3520B from Amazon last night, $3400.00 delivered. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Jerry Marcantel]

Robust is a finger breaker. I think I'd go with a Powermatic...... hehehe... Seriously, if your not a professional, why would you need anything like a Robust, unless you just want it for the name and bragging rights???? Stirring the waters again..... Jerry (in Tucson)

[Reed Gray]

I stepped up to my Beauty several years ago from a 3520A. Main reason was the 3 hp motor for a bit more torque. You don't need the extra throw for probably 99% of what you will turn. For that matter, most will never go past 16 inches for bowls. That is partly due to tree sizes, and that the market for any bowl over that size is pretty small. The 3520A did not have a digital read out, and I never learned to use one or depend on one. Just turn it up till it feels right. The Beauty does have a stainless steel bed, which was not a selling factor to me. It is nice though. It is made in the USA, and I prefer to buy American when possible. The adjustable legs are a great feature. I had the PM up on a 4 X 4 to get it to height. The beauty has adjustable legs. I had Brent walk me through reprogramming the phase converter so minimum speed went down to around 15 rpm. I need that for sanding my warped bowls. The PM turns off at 50 rpm, and they won't help you program it down. The Beauty had a much better spindle lock set up with more positions, and it is electronic so if you don't turn it off all the way, the lathe will not start up. I have an older Beauty which had 3 speed ranges. The newer ones have 2. If you have problems with a Beauty, you call and talk to the guy who made the lathe, not some tech who has to look in a manual to figure out what you are talking about. The tilt away tailstock set up is really slick. I also have the Sweet 16 which I really love as well and it is worth considering if you want some thing a bit cheaper. More power and torque than I thought it would have. If you want a lathe to compare the Beauty to, the new version of the PM 4224 is close. There is some debate over which is better, cast iron or steel tube for lathe construction. Only difference I could notice was that they make different noises as you turn on them. Both are fine lathes.

I used to flat work too, till I got a lathe......

robo hippy

[Brian Kent]

I have driven Honda Accords for 30 years.
On the one hand, I have never wished I had an Acura or a Cadillac or a BMW, even though those cars are impressive. That's a vote for the Powermatic when it is on sale for $3,400 at Woodcraft.
I drive an EX-L with Navigation instead of an LX, which adds $8,000 to the price. That's a vote for the American Beauty.

The deciding factor for me is that I keep my life simple everywhere, and then focus on the few items that I really enjoy - for those I go the extra measure.
So that's a vote to see if your current enthusiasm grows over the next several years. Then you try both at club meetings, stores, or people's shops, and settle in to which one is worth it for a lifetime. And you see if this is one of many interests or the one that really holds on to you.

I have the Delta 46-460 too. I have watched of a couple of turners upgrade from the Powermatic, but very few. None of them say it was lacking in any way. It sounds like both of those are lifetime lathes.

[Dan Hintz]

Robust is a finger breaker. I think I'd go with a Powermatic...... hehehe... Seriously, if your not a professional, why would you need anything like a Robust, unless you just want it for the name and bragging rights???? Stirring the waters again..... Jerry (in Tucson)

My finger is healing... at least that's what I keep telling myself between winces from pain. I'm not a pro, but I wouldn't want to go less than my AB at this point (though many consider me a minority... and a wacko).

I stepped up to my Beauty several years ago from a 3520A. Main reason was the 3 hp motor for a bit more torque. You don't need the extra throw for probably 99% of what you will turn. For that matter, most will never go past 16 inches for bowls. That is partly due to tree sizes, and that the market for any bowl over that size is pretty small. The 3520A did not have a digital read out, and I never learned to use one or depend on one. Just turn it up till it feels right. The Beauty does have a stainless steel bed, which was not a selling factor to me. It is nice though. It is made in the USA, and I prefer to buy American when possible. The adjustable legs are a great feature. I had the PM up on a 4 X 4 to get it to height. The beauty has adjustable legs. I had Brent walk me through reprogramming the phase converter so minimum speed went down to around 15 rpm. I need that for sanding my warped bowls. The PM turns off at 50 rpm, and they won't help you program it down. The Beauty had a much better spindle lock set up with more positions, and it is electronic so if you don't turn it off all the way, the lathe will not start up. I have an older Beauty which had 3 speed ranges. The newer ones have 2. If you have problems with a Beauty, you call and talk to the guy who made the lathe, not some tech who has to look in a manual to figure out what you are talking about. The tilt away tailstock set up is really slick. I also have the Sweet 16 which I really love as well and it is worth considering if you want some thing a bit cheaper. More power and torque than I thought it would have. If you want a lathe to compare the Beauty to, the new version of the PM 4224 is close. There is some debate over which is better, cast iron or steel tube for lathe construction. Only difference I could notice was that they make different noises as you turn on them. Both are fine lathes.

Reed pretty much said it all. I've turned on both and I don't think you'll be unhappy with either... but for me, some of the extras on the AB were worth the money. I also have the older 3-pully version. The stainless bed is awesome... no need to worry about wiping my bed off while working green wood, and any finish drips are ignored until I'm done for the day. I always want a digital readout on my equipment, no matter the type, but I quickly learned that on the lathe going by what feels right is way better than trying to dial in a specific rate that may / may not matter to what you're currently working on... if the AB had a readout, I'd definitely ignore it at this point. Oh, and I also got Bill Grumbine to sign the headstock before I drove away

[Scott Hackler]

Reed might be onto something with the meantion of the Sweet16. I have looked at ALL the various lathes and the only ones that are on my list are the Powermatic anniversary PM3520 (because I liked the black onyx look), the Robust Sweet16 and Robust American Beauty. If money was no object, it would definitely be the AB with the 3HP and tilt away tailstock. BUT..... money is few and far between and I am NOT a professional turner (make my living from it...or any money from it...) so that narrows my focus to either a PM3520 or the Sweet16. I currently have a Nova 1624. Its a very capible lathe, but a 1/3 the weight of the PM and probably 1/2 the weight of the Sweet16. The big selling feature for the PM is the weight and reliability. The Sweet16 is the removable bed and smaller size. Both have variable speed, which I don't have now and sure wish I did.

I don't think that I could find a black PM3520 (don't care for the yellow, sorry) so for me the choice is a Sweet16 and I would build a ballast box to increase the weight.


*I reserve the right to change my mind every 10 minutes....

[Scott Hackler]

Just did a quick price check and it looks like:

approx:

Powermatic PM3520 = $3400 (on sale now)
Robust Sweet 16 with 2HP = $6000
Robust AB with 3 HP and tilt away = $8500

Quite a jump, indeed. But again, if you ask most turners if money was no object...which lathe would they like to own and I would guess a majority would say the AB. There is a reason we all drool over it.

[charlie knighton]

both lathes are super.....several years ago, i choose the 1642 with outboard stand over the powermatic, the robust machines were priced out of wallet

today, not thinking of moving up , both are super lathes, but Dennis has said

As the design develops I'll make standard engineering drawings and materials list for who ever wants them.

, but with Dennis bowl lathe i would turn better the multi-axis wallhangings. he seems to have a goal of keeping it simple and $ wise.

[John Keeton]

Let me add some thoughts that perhaps never get discussed. I went thru the progression - HF 34706, Delta 46-460, and now a Jet 1642-2. Honestly, everything I have done to date, several of which are on my website, could easily have been completed on the Delta. That said, I do enjoy the Jet.

I will soon be 65, and while in excellent physical condition (I hope!?!), it seems evident there will be a time when managing heavy objects may not be advisable. Removing the tailstock from the Jet in order to use my Monster hollowing system is a one handed operation. It moves easily, as well. Having also turned on a PM 3520, I can say that I do not enjoy the mass of the banjo and the tailstock when it comes time to move them.

I realize I am in the overwhelming minority in making these statements, but really, one needs to look beyond their lusting desires (and, we all have them!) and be honest about what is really needed to accomplish the turning goals one has. If those goals include turning very large chunks of wood, weighing several pounds, then one may need an AB or PM - but, eventually, you may also need to consider how you will manage the weight on a more personal level.

Just some thoughts. I am completely satisfied with the Jet. It has yet to be taxed by the level of work I do.

[Glen Blanchard]

Just did a quick price check and it looks like:

approx:

Powermatic PM3520 = $3400 (on sale now)
Robust Sweet 16 with 2HP = $6000
Robust AB with 3 HP and tilt away = $8500

Quite a jump, indeed.

Yeah, and that doesn't even take into consideration shipping costs. The AB shipped to Dallas would be about $500 and the 3520B is an Amazon Prime item (which, for Prime members, means no cost for shipping). So (for me) that makes it....

Powermatic PM3520 = $3400 shipped (on sale now)
Robust AB with 3 HP and tilt away = $9000 shipped

[Dan Hintz]

Just did a quick price check and it looks like:

approx:

Powermatic PM3520 = $3400 (on sale now)
Robust Sweet 16 with 2HP = $6000
Robust AB with 3 HP and tilt away = $8500

Quite a jump, indeed. But again, if you ask most turners if money was no object...which lathe would they like to own and I would guess a majority would say the AB. There is a reason we all drool over it.

And let's be honest... a more fair comparison to the AB is the PM4224, not the 3250. At $7,500 for the base PM4224, the price comparison is dead on. As far as I'm aware, the PM does not offer the extras offered on the AB, such as the tilt-away. So both start at roughly the same price, but the AB can be modified more extensively.

[Glen Blanchard]

And let's be honest... a more fair comparison to the AB is the PM4224, not the 3250.

No doubt true. I wasn't really inferring that mine is an apples-to-apples comparison, but that if I were going to buy tomorrow I would choose between these two. I would never even consider the PM4224, as if I decide to spend that kind of coin, I'm getting the AB.

[Scott Hackler]

Glenn there is a way around the Robust (or other makers like One Way, Stubby, Jet, Nova, PM) shipping expense and possibly a small discount. Contact the lathe maker of your choice and reserve a demo lathe that they will be bringing to the SWAT Symposium in August!

Dan is right to not compare the AB and the 3520B. They aren't the same machine and aren't priced similar either, but Glen was asking about the 3520b and the AB...so......

John makes a vaid point that I have contemplated as well. What are you going to be turning??? For almost everything I turn, my Nova 1624-44 works very well. I only want a variable speed knob, remote control box, more weight and a bit more power. The 2HP Sweet16 or a Jet 16" 2HP or the PM...would work for me just fine. I can, realistically, not imagine turning any super sized pieces that would validate the need for an American Beauty or that new super sized PM.

[Jamie Donaldson]

The weight of the tailstock on the 3520B(as well as Oneways!) is a consideration, and Robust used to have a tailstock swing-away accessory made for the Powermatic, so that would be a necessary add-on that makes the 3520 even more desirable to me. The 3520B is definitely the leader in value for the money, and few users will ever outgrow it as a lifetime lathe investment.