The Future of the Laser Engraving Industry

[Kim Vellore]

If you are using vector on your laser for any job, that wont be replaced, there are some replacement options for raster but not all are the same.

Kim

[Chris DeGerolamo]

I can't tell you all what we do (don't want competition) but we started with one EPilog 36EXT, last year we bought a second and most likely a third is not too far behind. We cut. The only time we engrave is government jobs where someone who works here wants something done. 8-10 hours a day 6 days a week.

We joke that the laser prints money...

I need proof... lol

[Kay Bengtson]

I think it is only a matter of time before the new generation of high powered semiconductor lasers will be fitted to laser cutter/engravers. They probably could be fitted directly into the lens carriage. That should dramatically improve performance and lower costs and reliability. I think that development will be more impacting than these other alternate technologies and may derail the Chinese glass tube models. What it will do to the business is unknown but I would love to have one.

Kay

[Ernie Balch]

quote "I think it is only a matter of time before the new generation of high powered semiconductor lasers will be fitted to laser cutter/engravers."

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I think the semiconductor lasers are all too short a wavelength to be replacing the CO2 lasers. The advantage of a 10.6 micron wavelength CO2 laser is that it is all thermal and can easily cut or mark a wide range of materials with a large depth of focus for a very low cost. Going to shorter wavelengths like a fiber laser allows cutting and marking of metals but is not so good for wood and plastics especially when you consider the relatively high cost.

[Kay Bengtson]

quote "I think it is only a matter of time before the new generation of high powered semiconductor lasers will be fitted to laser cutter/engravers."

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I think the semiconductor lasers are all too short a wavelength to be replacing the CO2 lasers. The advantage of a 10.6 micron wavelength CO2 laser is that it is all thermal and can easily cut or mark a wide range of materials with a large depth of focus for a very low cost. Going to shorter wavelengths like a fiber laser allows cutting and marking of metals but is not so good for wood and plastics especially when you consider the relatively high cost.

There has been a development in that area just recently and a demo laser cutter was shown operating. I lost the link but I do recall that it cut wood.

Check out Osram Opto Semiconductors. They are coordinating the IMOTHEB project (Integrated microoptical and microthermal elements for diode lasers of high brilliance) From their press release: "Diode-pumped high-power laser systems for material processing such as cutting and welding are playing an increasingly important role in industry. Their advantages over carbon dioxide lasers and lasers pumped with flash lamps are lower operating costs, greater efficiency and smaller size. Fiber lasers and fiber-coupled diode lasers are becoming more and more important for optical material processing."

[Ernie Balch]

It would be really great if the diode pumped fiber laser prices come down to earth and become comparable to CO2 lasers. In that case I would buy one of each

[Liesl Dexheimer]

Another thing about my worry of home lasers becoming as common as home printers. Every computer you buy comes with some type of typing program and some type of paint program. With that and a printer you can do things that in the past would have required going to a print shop.

But with a laser you need some type of vector program and the knowledge to use it. Making it less likely for lasers to become as common as printers.

Also paper is cheap. One penny can get you ten sheets. If you screw something up printing, no big deal it didn't even cost a cent. Things we put in the laser (even the cheapest ones) tend to be much much more expensive. So if it doesn't turn out perfect the first time you are out at least a few buck but probably a lot more.

Another thing about any home lasers in the future, they will be compact which means they can't do large items. Usually when I am doing sheet goods I use every inch of the laser bed and wished I had a bit more to work with. So the home lasers wont be able to do large parts without a lot of creative splicing. Which requires knowledge of corelDraw and probably practice which costs material.

With all that said the only thing I could think of that may be able to be compleatly replaced with small desktop lasers would be for making tags. Even then the person who owns the laser would have to source the material and have a way to cut it down to size so it fits in the laser.

My concern is exactly this (home/personal lasers). Lasers have become cheaper to produce and laser manufacturers are now selling not just to trophy/award/sign shops but schools and large companies which will definitely hurt our business in the long run. I understand the need for laser manufacturers to expand their market but it could undermine smaller companies.

I also do see how the personalization market is pushing more color based products. Sublimation seems to be quite the rage with UV printing not far behind. I think there will always be a need for lasers but sometimes the option for color may attract more customers.

[Joe Hillmann]

What about 5 years from now......don't you think those UV ink manufacturers are working diligently to come up with new and better inks that can stick to any substrate and outlast a nuclear winter? Yes, the link to the printer I showed in my original post is $30,000......but like lasers ($30,000 five years ago to $5,000 today) the UV printer prices will drop.

You are comparing American/German and British lasers to Chinese lasers when say "$30,000 five years ago to $5,000 today" The only place I have seen laser prices really drop is in yags. If you machine that five years ago would have cost $80,000 can now be replaced with a fiber laser somewhere in the $30,000 range. Of course even then you could have bought a Chinese yag of the same specs five years ago for under $40,000. I don't know of many people here who would rather have a Chinese machine over a US machine. When it comes down to it the biggest reason people end up going with Chinese is the price, and when they do it they know it wont be as good as an American machine but for 1/4-1/10 the price they are willing to work with it.

[Dan Hintz]

I think it is only a matter of time before the new generation of high powered semiconductor lasers will be fitted to laser cutter/engravers. They probably could be fitted directly into the lens carriage. That should dramatically improve performance and lower costs and reliability. I think that development will be more impacting than these other alternate technologies and may derail the Chinese glass tube models.

Diode-based lasers require some form of amplification/frequency modifier medium... it's not the diode energy itself that's doing the cutting. For fiber, it's the fiber itself... for YAG, it's the crystal. You can't stuff all of that into a small carriage, which is why they are designed the way they are... a box with all of the important stuff in it, and a transmission fiber going to the focusing optics.

[Kay Bengtson]

Diode-based lasers require some form of amplification/frequency modifier medium... it's not the diode energy itself that's doing the cutting. For fiber, it's the fiber itself... for YAG, it's the crystal. You can't stuff all of that into a small carriage, which is why they are designed the way they are... a box with all of the important stuff in it, and a transmission fiber going to the focusing optics.

I didn't make this up. If you go to youtube and search for "diode laser cutter" you will see prototype systems already working that cut and mark wood using 808nm IR diode lasers mounted on a carriage. They are big and slow now but with the newer tech coming down the pike, we should see practical units in the next few years.

[Jeff Schlangen]

I think one pro to a laser is when people actually get to see it work. I have our laser running for 8 hours a day and in the mornings when I'm not there I have it set up so the secretary can go in, push go and keep it running all morning as well. So any time somebody comes in and asks for a plaque/sign/etc to be made they'll sit in awe watching the laser before we even get down to business on what it is that they want.

Perfect example of this is I made an urn for this family who had just lost their father. I invited them all to watch the engraving process and sure enough the mother and 3 of the kids showed up along with a few grand kids to watch the laser do its thing. When it got to the eyes of the photo the mother burst out in tears. It was sort of a humbling experience, and certainly an experience that they'll remember.

I don't think they would have reacted quite the same way if it were a UV printer. Laser engraving as a certain 'awe' factor to it. I've been at it for a little over a year and some days I'll just watch it like "wow ... it's actually doing that!"

Not quite a printer, not quite a CNC .. unique in its own right.

[Mike Lysov]

I have an UV printer, it works well for $10K I have paid for the brand new one from China. As you can see it is not that expensive if you do not try to get a well know brand.
There is no much to improve with UV inks. My inks are good but they are quite expensive ($200/L) and I have 7 colour system. Actually it depends what you compare UV inks with. My printer is based on a Epson 4880 printer and if you look at the prices of original Epson inks in Epson cartridges UV inks do not look expensive at all. However if you compare UV inks with solvent based inks UV inks cost a few times more indeed.
White UV ink could be better as it seems to be too thick to print without banding but it is still ok. Yes UV inks do not stick well to glass and ceramic, probably some bare metal as well but there are some special coatings available in you want to print on these material. And UV inks are very good for outdoor and very scratch and even some solvents resistant, not to mention that there is no way you can ruin UV print with water. So I guess in terms of making name tags and awards there may be some competition UV printers vs laser engravers.

Re 3d printers, there are already some technologies available for laser based 3d printers. They can print metal parts. I have seen some examples of printed parts and the whole technology looks very promising. But I do not really see what 3d printers and laser engravers have in common.

[Dan Hintz]

I didn't make this up. If you go to youtube and search for "diode laser cutter" you will see prototype systems already working that cut and mark wood using 808nm IR diode lasers mounted on a carriage. They are big and slow now but with the newer tech coming down the pike, we should see practical units in the next few years.

Sure, I've seen a number of "diode-based lasers" on youtube over the years... the laser is often yanked from a DVD player. Hardly any real power. You're not going to cut much very fast at a couple of Watts of power. The real stuff comes into play when there's an amplification medium (fiber, crystal, etc.). Doing otherwise would be like driving a car with only 1st gear.

[Chuck Jarrett]

Even at my age I have the idea of a new and more powerful laser in the back of my head. BTW, my business is up more than 50% already this year with strong orders for April and May. I think the future is very bright for the laser engraving business.

I see that Bill has posted while I was writing---I'm 76 and considering a new machine--Trotec naturally. (I just bought a card printer last week.)

Mike you encourage me. I am 60 and I get asked by friends quite often when I am going to retire. I do not plan to retire, as I like being productive. We as yet do not have a laser engraver, however are seriously considering getting one to compliment our CNC router. I am leaning towards the Epilog 36 EXT, because of the bed size (engraving area), however I have noticed in your post that you are pro Trotec. In your opinion are there significant advantages of the Trotec over the Epilog. I'm hoping if I get to be 76, I will be thinking of something new in our business.

[matthew knott]

Sure, I've seen a number of "diode-based lasers" on youtube over the years... the laser is often yanked from a DVD player. Hardly any real power. You're not going to cut much very fast at a couple of Watts of power. The real stuff comes into play when there's an amplification medium (fiber, crystal, etc.). Doing otherwise would be like driving a car with only 1st gear.

They are coming on Dan, not there yet by a long way but there have been big leaps forward in the quality of beam coming directly from laser diodes, We had a rep for Thales (laser diodes) come in and he thinks that direct diode could replace fiber lasers in the future, be interesting if they can as it will bring the cost and size right down, in the 60's a HeNe laser would cost $$$$$ and be massive, now a laser diode fits on the end of a pen, Oddly its small CO2 lasers than seem to have been stuck for many years, no real change in 10 years and the price of tubes has remained unchanged, Yags been replaced by fiber and costs have been more than halved!

Heres an example of direct diodes 2kw no less http://optics.org/news/4/3/41