lie nielsens (ready to go out of the box?)

[mike johnston]

I just ordered two Lie Nielsen planes. Knowing very little about hand tools I was hoping these would be usable right out of the box. I figured I would have to flaten and sharpen the iron, but was hoping not to have to mess with the sole of the plane. I've never done that before, and the the thought of rubbing on that beautiful bronze body scares the heck out of me. Also I sharpen with a worksharp 3000, and I know that would not be the method of a true Neander, but it is what my limited skills allow.


PS over the years I have added a few decent hand tools to my shop and never seemed to use them. But this last project, I did pull out a 2 year old Veritas block plane that had never been used. I thought it was the greatest thing in the world. I used it every chance I could and thought it was the sharpest tool in the world. Then I found out you have to sharpen them first. Same thing for my two cherries chisels, been using them right out of the box because they were by far the sharpest thing that was ever in my shop. Then yesterday I sharpened one and wow. Is there anyone in the Omaha area that would have time to show me a few things about hand tools. I would gladly pay for your time.


Thank You
Mike

[David Weaver]

You've got it right, you hone the iron and go with it. If LN's are still the same, you'll have to do a little work on the back of the iron, but not too much.

There should be no point that you'd do anything other than degrade the rest of the plane by working on it (e.g, lapping the sides or sole, that part is all ready to go and the most you'd need to do with any of it is paraffin wax or something to lubricate the bottom and make it work easier).

[Danny Burns]

I know that Lee Valley and Lie-Nielsen planes are ready to go out of the box, but can anyone tell me if the WoodRiver planes are the same, or do you need to flatten the bottoms?
Is this where the price difference is between the top planes, and the next tire below?

[Chris Griggs]

I know that Lee Valley and Lie-Nielsen planes are ready to go out of the box, but can anyone tell me if the WoodRiver planes are the same, or do you need to flatten the bottoms?
Is this where the price difference is between the top planes, and the next tire below?

The difference between the WRs and the LN/LVs is most apparent in the adjustments, which have less slop and are little smoother in the LV/LNs than the WRs. The WRs should and generally do come flat and other than a honing should work out of the box. If you get a WR that doesn't meet that criteria you should send it back. The LNs and LVs are nicer to use, your probably less likely to need to send them back, and are well worth stepping up to (you also get to support 2 of the best companies out there, period). That said, when it comes down to brass tacks use, I cannot fault the flatness or performance of the WRs.

I recommend doing search for "woodriver plane". This question comes up every few months and there are a wealth of opinions about the WRs from past threads.

To the OP....I agree with what Dave said.

[Jim Koepke]

Is Omaha in the extreme south east of Nebraska?

That is where Junior (Harry Strasil) lives.

At the top of the Neanderthal Haven is the Neanderthal Haven Announcements. Inside is a thread for a mentoring program. Locate the post by Junior and click on his name. That will bring up some options of which one will be to send him a private message.

If you were in my area, the only payment requested would be to bring me an interesting ale or two.

jtk

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I just ordered two Lie Nielsen planes. Knowing very little about hand tools I was hoping these would be usable right out of the box.

That is why my first hand plane was a LN... I knew that I lacked the ability to (or time) to do an initial tune up. And I used it out of the box. I did not even sharpen it first. Now, I had a primary one time use problem and I had never done any wood working and was not doing it, but, I was able to trim a door with no problems.

[Mike Cogswell]

You've got it right, you hone the iron and go with it. If LN's are still the same, you'll have to do a little work on the back of the iron, but not too much.

There should be no point that you'd do anything other than degrade the rest of the plane by working on it (e.g, lapping the sides or sole, that part is all ready to go and the most you'd need to do with any of it is paraffin wax or something to lubricate the bottom and make it work easier).

Agree completely. No new quality plane should need to have its sole flattened out of the box. If it does, send it back.

[Danny Thompson]

I was hoping these would be usable right out of the box.

Mr. Weaver is right, after trying to improve the edge in a variety of ways and "degrading" the blade in the process, the right approach to one of these planes has proven to be:

Add a microbevel and go to town!

[Mike Cogswell]

The difference between the WRs and the LN/LVs is most apparent in the adjustments, which have less slop and are little smoother in the LV/LNs than the WRs. The WRs should and generally do come flat and other than a honing should work out of the box. If you get a WR that doesn't meet that criteria you should send it back. The LNs and LVs are nicer to use, your probably less likely to need to send them back, and are well worth stepping up to (you also get to support 2 of the best companies out there, period). That said, when it comes down to brass tacks use, I cannot fault the flatness or performance of the WRs.

I recommend doing search for "woodriver plane". This question comes up every few months and there are a wealth of opinions about the WRs from past threads.

To the OP....I agree with what Dave said.

Chris nailed it. I have 12 bench planes, 9 are Lie-Nielsen and 3 are Woodriver V3. The LN planes look and feel better, with a higher level of finish all around. Operationally, the most noticeable difference is the amount of backlash in the blade advancing mechanism. The WR backlash is easily 3 or 4x the LN. Blade advancement and the occasional frog adjustment are smoother on the LN as well. Both take decent shavings right out of the box and plane flawlessly after the blade has been honed (the WRs did take more work the first time on the back of the blade.) Plus, with a LN you have the peace of mind of an unconditional lifetime warranty. I think FWW had it right when they gave LN a Best Overall and WR a Best Value in their plane comparison a couple a years ago. The WR is a really good plane that I have no hesitation recommending. The LN is the best in class, but you pay a premium.

I also have a number of other LN and Veritas (Lee Valley) planes thanks to their huge variety of specialty and block planes. I didn't mention LV above because I don't happen to have any Veritas bench planes, but their planes are, INHO, the equal of LN in both quality and support. Great products from two great companies.

[Jim Koepke]

One very big advantage to the LN & LV planes is how they hold their value. If one wants to sell off their planes in the future, they will likely recover most of their cost with an LN or an LV product.

My accumulation of Stanley planes were mostly bought for low prices. That is my only guarantee of possibly recovering my investment if it ever comes time to sell.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Mr. Weaver is right, after trying to improve the edge in a variety of ways and "degrading" the blade in the process, the right approach to one of these planes has proven to be:

Add a microbevel and go to town!

My take on what Mr. Weaver said was not about degrading the blade, but the rest of the plane.

As far as the micro-bevel is concerned, it is my belief that a person should first learn how to get a blade sharp before trying any of the modifications like micro-bevels, back bevels, ruler tricks or cambering.

It is a much easier path of progression to get a solid grounding in what a sharp blade actually is before adding all of the tricks and then not knowing why the plane isn't working up to one's expectations.

jtk

[Mike Cogswell]

One very big advantage to the LN & LV planes is how they hold their value. If one wants to sell off their planes in the future, they will likely recover most of their cost with an LN or an LV product.

My accumulation of Stanley planes were mostly bought for low prices. That is my only guarantee of possibly recovering my investment if it ever comes time to sell.

jtk

Jim makes an excellent point. I've been keeping track of the sell price of completed eBay sales of LN planes for more than a year. The median sales price as a percentage of the original MSRP ranges from 70.0% to 93.9% for the models that have had at least five sales. The overall average of all the median prices is 87.3%. I do not include the various limited editions, these are all the regular production ones. I also to not include the shipping costs.

There aren't many things in the world that you can expect to resell used for that kind of a percentage of the original price.

[Ryan Baker]

My take on what Mr. Weaver said was not about degrading the blade, but the rest of the plane.

As far as the micro-bevel is concerned, it is my belief that a person should first learn how to get a blade sharp before trying any of the modifications like micro-bevels, back bevels, ruler tricks or cambering.

It is a much easier path of progression to get a solid grounding in what a sharp blade actually is before adding all of the tricks and then not knowing why the plane isn't working up to one's expectations.

jtk

Words of wisdom! I agree 1000% Jim.

[Danny Thompson]

My take on what Mr. Weaver said was not about degrading the blade, but the rest of the plane.

As far as the micro-bevel is concerned, it is my belief that a person should first learn how to get a blade sharp before trying any of the modifications like micro-bevels, back bevels, ruler tricks or cambering.

It is a much easier path of progression to get a solid grounding in what a sharp blade actually is before adding all of the tricks and then not knowing why the plane isn't working up to one's expectations.

jtk

I see your point about ruler tricks and back bevels, but not so much about micro-bevels. You don't see a secondary/micro-bevel as part of a normal sharpening regiment for an LN plane blade, which comes with a reasonable primary bevel right out of the box? Maybe this applies to be BU planes, alone?

[Mark Roderick]

My take on what Mr. Weaver said was not about degrading the blade, but the rest of the plane.

As far as the micro-bevel is concerned, it is my belief that a person should first learn how to get a blade sharp before trying any of the modifications like micro-bevels, back bevels, ruler tricks or cambering.

It is a much easier path of progression to get a solid grounding in what a sharp blade actually is before adding all of the tricks and then not knowing why the plane isn't working up to one's expectations.

jtk

I agree with all that except the part about the micro-bevel. All beginners are going to be sharpening with a honing guide. Rather than hone the entire bevel to a shiny polish, it makes complete sense to retract the blade a bit and hone a micro-bevel. It's far easier and far faster, so the beginning will see the fruits of his labor much more quickly with much less chance for error.