Minimax and Hammer decision

[Craig Behnke]

creekers,

i'm looking for user feedback/advice. i'm about to buy a jointer/planer combo and a bandsaw. I have priced two options and they are incredibly close in total cost and both are high quality brands. The two options are:

- Hammer A3 31 w/ spiral cutter head + N4400 bandsaw
- Minimax FS30 w/ tersa head + MM16 (now called S400P) bandsaw

This is for high volume hobby/small side business use. I tend to use highly figure woods about 25% of the time (curly and quilted maple most often), so the Hammer spiral J/P seems attractive. I won't be doing a ton of resawing. Given my workflow right now, the JP is slightly more important to me than the BS (I know, that's blasphemy).

To break up the order and get one machine from each (e.g., Hammer J/P + MM16 Bandsaw) would result in meaningful additional costs for shipping and forgone discounts (total cost of machines + shipping goes up about 15%). I know there are no perfect solutions and almost everything we do is a trade-off of pro's and con's. I just want to make sure I'm thinking of as many pro's and con's as I can so I can make a decision that best fits my situation.

Am I putting too much importance on the 15% total cost impact of getting both machines from one vendor? Is the spiral head JP massively better than great straight blades and the MM16 so much better than the N4400 such that the 15% additional cost is worth it?

I'm not looking to make it a brand debate of minimax vs hammer, I think both are super high quality machines. Rather, I'd like to know specifially about these machines and the various other factors that go with ownership and operation of the machines. If I start putting in other options (.e.g., MM20, A3 41, I start going too far over my budget).

Anyone gone through decisions like this recently or years ago and can give some feedback/advice as to what pushed them one direction or the other back then....and what do they think now after living with their decision?

Any feedback appreciated.

[Rich Riddle]

I have both Hammer and MiniMax products so won't bash one brand over the other. The MiniMax band saws prove superior to the Hammer models, but I like the Hammer planer over the MiniMax. Can you mix and match or are you set on getting both from one supplier? You could pickup your Hammer order in Delaware; it's not far from Vermont. You might not have that ability though. In my experience Hammer didn't want to offer a multi-tool discount, but that might vary as well.

[Peter Kelly]

You might inquire about lead times on machinery orders from Felder. If you aren't prepared to wait a few months for a jointer-planer it might be an issue. SCMI stocks most of their popular equipment from MiniMax in Atlanta.

[Jim Barrett]

I was told the N4400 won't be available to ship until July 1...

[Craig Behnke]

Can you mix and match or are you set on getting both from one supplier?

I can mix and match. for savings and simplicity (delivery, vendor communication, set-up, repair, etc, etc) I'd prefer one vendor...but I also don't want the savings to be the only factor in a 10-15 year ownership decision.

agree w/ you...the hammer j/p with spiral head is very attractive...and the mm16 is extremely capable and deservedly loved by a ton of WW'ers.

I do go visit family in Manahawkin New Jersey once a year, so I could make the 75 mile trip over to New Castle DE for a showroom pick up.

Lot of options available.

[Craig Behnke]

You might inquire about lead times on machinery

Yes, I had figured that already and since this equipment is going to be used by a small/start-up business, I prefer to get cracking sooner rather than later as I need to fill an order for late september and the customer will take whatever I produce,...but it's a once a year deal that won't re-order until next september. I can produce pieces right now, just much less efficiently, so the net money i pocket is much less.

september sound like a long way out but since I only have a 2-3 nights per week and 2-3 weekends a month to produce, all else equal, I prefer to get machines in weeks rather than months.

[mreza Salav]

MM16 is not in the same league as N4400 IMO; it's a much stronger/ heavier saw.
Minimax machines are generally more industrial vs Hammer line is more for hobbyist. I think the only selling feature of the A3 31 would be spiral head but I have Tersa on my J/P and love it (it takes less than a minute or two to change all the blades).

[Jim Becker]

I'm very pleased with my Mini Max machines as well as the company. Hammer certainly makes quality products, too.

[David Kumm]

Timing is an issue. Someone on the Felder group posted that his Hammer that was to be delivered in Feb is delayed to May. Your call on the JP. the bandsaws are not close. 4400 is a nice saw but not a resaw like the MM. Dave

[Stephen Cherry]

Yes, I had figured that already and since this equipment is going to be used by a small/start-up business, I prefer to get cracking sooner rather than later as I need to fill an order for late september and the customer will take whatever I produce,...but it's a once a year deal that won't re-order until next september. I can produce pieces right now, just much less efficiently, so the net money i pocket is much less.

september sound like a long way out but since I only have a 2-3 nights per week and 2-3 weekends a month to produce, all else equal, I prefer to get machines in weeks rather than months.

Just to throw a monkey wrench into things, if you are planning on cutting out a bunch of small doodads with the bandsaw in quantities, I would look first at a cr onsrud inverted pin router. Within the parameters of what it can do, it will do faster, better finished work than a bandsaw. Of course, you can't resaw with a pin router, so this needs to bee taken with a grain of salt.

That said, I have dealt with the Felder crew in Delaware, and highly recommend them for product support. I'm not talking about saying please and thank you on the phone, but real support of the product years after the sale. I bought a scoring saw upgrade for my table saw, which was about 5 years old at the time, and it was exactly complete. I did not even need to strip one wire to make it work. And the price was right, too. (not cheap, but not punitive either.)

Another thing I like about Hammer-Felder is that they have a good website, and catalogs that tell you what they sell, and give an idea about the prices. None of this is to take away from Minimax though.

[Don Welch]

I started out much like it sounds where you are, looking at a Hammer A3 31 and similar sized Minimax; had a difficult time getting through some nagging robustness concerns and while thinking of a larger A3 41, we ended up w/ a Minimax 41 Elite. It's an impressive machine and I'm convinced the industrial grade center mounted fence is a feature that was worth the up-size in J/P comparisons. I've been equally well satisfied in dealing w/ Erik - kudos to the equipment and him. No first hand comments on a bandsaw since ours is a Canadian General 15 inch , but from the J/P experience and feedback from owners of them we'll be looking at a Minimax MM20 [old designation I know] when that step up occurs.

[Chris Padilla]

FS41 Elite J/P here along with an MM20. Both have been wonderful but I've no experience with Hammer.

[Rich Enders]

Craig,

The MM forum is available to non-owners as well as owners. A couple of months ago an owner was looking into a spiral head, and the responses were mostly in favor of the Tersa.

[Cyril Thompson]

Hi, Craig, Take a look at a thread on Woodwork UK Forum about the Hammer spiral head before you decide I think you will find it of interest.

[Bill Rabbino]

I have an FS30 and it has been an excellent machine, the Tersa blades give a clean cut and are easy to replace. I am in the market for a sliding TS and am considering a MM