[OP]
Contributor
Just received a ups package that I've been waiting on for a week to make some raised panels for a kitchen job. New LV bevel up jack rabbit plane.. Opened the box and was admiring the design when I noticed both nickers were missing. Guess I'll be calling customer service in the morning. More waiting for myself and my customer.
Doesn't anyone check their product before they ship? What a disappointment! Sorry just extremely frustrated with a company with such a great reputation.
Randy
Member
This is your only tool? Knives, routers planes, shoulder planes, etc. can all be brought o bear to make a raised panel without a nicker. I feel sorry for businesses in this internet age where mistakes (which inevitably happen) - that you will make right as quickly as possible - nevertheless get trumpeted on public forums for hundreds or thousands to read.
Last edited by Sean Hughto; 04-02-2013 at 10:26 PM.
Member
I have to agree... Not making excuses for mistakes, but really we all make them now and again, and knowing that a company like Lee Valley is there for you if it happens should make one feel confident and not feeling the need to publically shame them for it... That said, I feel your frustration, but I think you could have handled it a bit better.Originally Posted by Sean Hughto
Member
I don't know how to ask it without sounding rude - but why would you be taking a job without a way to make something as common as a raised panel, particularly if that was part of the job? Like Sean said though, for now, just plenty of work arounds - I would lay out the line with a marking gauge and then deepen with a knife, repeat as necessary.
Doesn't take away any of the frustration, though - even with a company you know will make it right, it's a bummer to open the box and not find what's supposed to be there. It pretty much always sucks, regardless of whether they make it right.
" Be willing to make mistakes in your basements, garages, apartments and palaces. I have made many. Your first attempts may be poor. They will not be futile. " - M.S. Bickford, Mouldings In Practice
Member
+1. Companies such as LV and LN provide great products and have such *awesome* customer service it's sad when someone goes on a rant like this and gets permanent "air time". These companies have great reputations for making few mistakes and *always* making it right, even going above and beyond reasonable to make customers happy.
Yes I'd be frustrated if I ordered something and a piece is omitted or incorrect but going on a vendor-slamming rant like this before the vendor has a chance to stand behind it tells more about the ranter than it does about the vendor.
Future readers: when reading this rant, count me in on those who stand behind this company. They're great to deal with and sell quality products.
Jim in Alaska
One can never have too many planes and chisels... or so I'm learning!!
Guest
Randy has been criticized for being critical. Think about it for a minute: He tells you of an actual experience, one where he paid good money but was not given what was represented. Randy then tells you that the result of this mistake by LV was not just disappointment, or a delayed finish to some silly project like a saw till, but actual harm to his business. And you tell him to shut up??Just received a ups package that I've been waiting on for a week to make some raised panels for a kitchen job. New LV bevel up jack rabbit plane.
Randy
And then Randy was criticized for not having prepared alternate methods of work in anticipation of the LV tool being faulty. What kind of logic is that? Are you implying that LV is endemically unreliable and therefore anyone that buys from LV should allow adequate time in their project schedule's critical path for defective tool returns? But anyone who has ordered from LV, and I have many times, knows that LV is very reliable. Obviously, Randy was a victim of a rare mistake. But that mistake was not his, it was Lee Valley's, so it is wrong to criticize him.
Tool retailers like LV benefit tremendously from the internet, largely because word-of-mouth about their products and services reach many many more people than would have been possible prior to the internet. But it is a two edged sword that can both benefit and harm a tool retailer, as is only fair. I appreciate Randy telling of his experience. It is not enough to make me stop purchasing from LV, but I realize I may need to allow more time to correct defective tools
Of course, it would be irresponsible of Randy to make a complaint over the internet backyard fence like this and then not follow-up with a report of how LV deals with the problem. I have no doubt that LV will correct the problem quickly and Randy's report will only add to LV's reputation as an honest company with excellent service. After all, everyone makes mistakes. A good man corrects his mistakes, remediates the damage resulting from his mistakes to the best of his capabilities, and works hard to prevent the same mistake from being repeated. I think that Rob Lee is that kind of man, and not like some weasily executive at Stanley Tools.
But don't shoot Randy, he's just sharing his experiences with us.
Stan
Last edited by Stanley Covington; 04-03-2013 at 12:50 AM.
Contributor
I tend to agree Stanley. Though I do see where other's perspectives are based and have to also agree with some of what they say.But don't shoot Randy, he's just sharing his experiences with us.
In the end, most of us would be at least happy about the company from whom the item was purchased. We pretty much know how this will end.
My question for Randy is to think about the screws that hold the knickers. Better let them know if those were also missing or this could become a double whammy.
Another thought is it being a big mistake to take a job that depends on a tool to be bought for the job. There are many ways to raise a panel just like all the different ways most tasks in woodworking can be done. One should never chart a timeline based on the arrival of a tool that one has never used before. It is a calamity in the making.
Finally, with a free shipping period it is likely there was a lot more activity than usual and a lot of tired people working overtime to get product out the door. What if when the tool was ordered it was back ordered for a few months? That would mess up a timeline.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
While Lee Valley are at fault by their omission and will doubtless remedy the situation to your satisfaction, they should have been contacted and given the opportunity to do so before a public complaint was considered or made.
Reliance upon a non-existent tool (Not yet in the toolkit) is seldom a good idea when pricing and scheduling works for an immediate start date. Even more so if one hasn't experience of using the tool in question, as a certain settling in/fine tuning period is often necessary in terms of technique and tool set-up. It's often easier to bring a start date forward than set one back if you've a reasonably well scheduled workload, yet the customer seldom needs to know your scheduling unless work is being carried out on the basis of stage payments. Always try and give yourself plenty of lead-in time.
Member
Probably a 3 days max. wait to get the parts. I messed up when sending a customer cap screws with threads that were a tad too large due to a faulty die. I ate all the shipping and made the threads right and sent them back in a very short time(a few days). Stuff happens. I should have checked the threads,but had been using that same die for years just fine. Actually,it was the die holder that wore enough to allow the die to expand a few thou. too large. A tenth of a thousandth too big,and those threads aren't going to screw in! The customer was in a hurry,but did not complain. Probably some new or tired employee at LV packed that order and hundreds of others that day.
Last edited by george wilson; 04-03-2013 at 7:44 AM.
Member
Are you guys serious?
The OP's post cannot be considered a rant by any means. The OP is frustrated and so would anyone else who opened this package. He did not yell names or lay outrageous charges of blame; he did however claim that he would call LV in the morning to solve the problem.
There is nothing wrong or outside of proper protocol with the OP's approach. It would be great if he followed up with the resolution.
As for his choice of tool to do a job, that really isn't anyone's business but his. Do you think that there are other ways to do the job? Make a suggestion as some have. You might however before you do this consider that there is an entire forum on this site for people who work with handtools exclusively and this post is in that section. Neander is as neander does.
What I do see in this thread are a bunch of guys who would likely love to be picked to sit on the LV float at the Christmas parade! LV really doesn't need this sort of slavish outpouring of defense from you, their actions with the OP will be all that is required to make another satisfied customer out of him. The OP and LV will be just fine.
Last edited by Chris Fournier; 04-03-2013 at 7:52 AM.
Member
I'm sitting on the blasted float,Chris!!!!!It was a mistake,and we all make them sooner or later,don't we?
Actually,I HAD the adapter for the vertical head I sent you. JUST KIDDING!!!
Can he scribe a deep line with a knife where the edge of the panel plane will pass? That would do for now. Re scribe as the cut proceeds. There are many antique wooden badger planes out there without nickers. Must have been what they did(though I am not habitually a furniture maker).
I have an early LN skew block plane that has no nickers. I could make one,machine the side of the plane and add it,but haven't bothered.
Last edited by george wilson; 04-03-2013 at 9:03 AM.
Member
Q4. Read This Before You Rant
A4. "It is the intent of Sawmill Creek to permit the airing of concerns regarding the suitability of a particular product, or the quality or sufficiency of customer service provided by a vendor in any particular instance.
However, these threads often deteriorate into a "piling on" and develop a very negative tone. That doesn't assist other viewers in assessing the overall advisability of whether to buy this particular product, nor to assess the overall customer service provided by that manufacturer/vendor.
In order to be fair to the many vendors that provide woodworking products, the following policies will be in force:
The original poster must have first contacted the manufacturer/vendor and have attempted a solution PRIOR to posting the thread.
The original poster should provide factual details of the problem, and details of efforts that have been made with the manufacturer/vendor to rectify the problem.
Subsequent posts must be limited to suggestions to the original poster to assist in rectifying the problem - not to pile on because you had similar problems.
Sawmill Creek is a woodworking forum. The intended purpose is to provide a community in which useful information may be shared among the members. Threads that do not achieve that purpose will be locked, or removed if necessary."
Moderator
Steve Meliza has kindly posted the section of the rules about complaints about supplier customer service. The salient point here is that before posting a complaint the OP (original poster) is supposed to contact the vendor for resolution of the problem PRIOR to posting a complaint. Frustration is inevitable when items ordered are late, broken, wrong, missing parts, or have any number of other problems or errors.
Under normal circumstances I would delete this thread as a violation of the rules about complaints. In this case I will leave it as instructional material and hope that all who read this learn a little bit about a variety of issues.
I will now lock the thread.
Dave Anderson
Chester, NH
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