Zinsser Shellac

[Mark Rakestraw]

Two or three years ago I built a bed out of cherry and used Zinsser Orange shellac for the finish. It gave just a touch of color boost to the cherry which has now aged nicely. I'm now building the rest of the bedroom set and Zinsser no longer sells the "orange" but only the "amber" and "clear". While the phone rep says it was just a marketing decision and that the product is the same to me it looks worlds more "yellow". Maybe their formula is the same but their sourcing from a different location or type of lac bug??? I can't just color match the bed as the cherry has aged. What would you folks try? Source orange shellac flakes from somewhere else? Add toner? I did sample some reddish brown Transtint dye (6003) in some of the amber shellac and it did knock down the yellow somewhat. Maybe I should have started with the clear? Any suggestions are quite appreciated.

[John TenEyck]

Oh man, this will be a can of worms, but here goes. Your new cherry is going to age, so if you match it to the stuff that's already aged it'll look different in a couple of years. The easiest, and most likely to look "right" in a couple of years, is to just do exactly what you did the last time and let nature take it's course. I haven't noticed a change of color from the orange to amber relabeling, but I have no way to prove that it hasn't. Still, it can't have changed much and the wood will change more in comparison. I'm a big fan of dyes and toners, but I don't think I'd do it in this case.

John

[David Weaver]

Ditto that. do it the same and it will catch up fairly quickly. Start it dark, and it'll go right past the old stuff.

[Mark Rakestraw]

Thanks guys, but I didn't explain myself well. I know the older cherry has aged and I don't want to make the new instantly look like the old. These are fairly sophisticated clients who realize they'll have to wait for the new to catch up. I want to treat it the same way I treated the original piece, but my perception is that the product has changed. I was wondering how to doctor the new product (or find a substitute) to be the same as the old "orange"....so it will match in a couple/few years, not now. Maybe you're right John and it really is the same....perhaps the 'amber' label is just playing with my mind but sure looks too yellow to me.

[John TenEyck]

Mark, unless you have some sort of sample of the old orange shellac on some type of white wood that you can compare to the new amber stuff you're just guessing from memory. Mine's bad and, no offense, I'll bet yours isn't so good either in remembering the exact color. Who could? So I'd still say leave it alone and just repeat what you did. However, if you're bound and determined to alter the color, Transtint dye is an excellent way to adjust the color of shellac. I use toners a lot, and it often starts out with amber shellac, cut 2/3 with DNA, to which I add Transtint. I almost always spray several coats of this to sneak up on the color hue I'm after. Whatever route you go, make samples of the entire finishing process until you're satisfied you've got what you're after. Good luck.

John

[Prashun Patel]

The good news is that should you decide 5 years from now that the new piece looks different from the original, you can always tone it later. My bet is that you won't have to. Further, in my limited experience, the variation in the eventual darkening of cherry from two different trees will far exceed the difference between amber and orange shellac.

[Steve Schoene]

I doubt there is very little if any difference between Orange and Amber, the name was changed at the same time the very confusion name of White was changed to Clear. It was to clarify the product for amateurs not familiar with the traditional names. It's really hard to tell if there is any difference unless you can apply Amber over exactly the same colored substrate as the Orange, any differences will be mostly the differences in color of the substrate. The color will also vary considerable with how thick the dry coating is between the two samples. Amber is still made from shellac sold in the commodity markets as Orange shellac (with standards for defining the particular grades.)

[Andy Pratt]

I second what John and steve have said.

[Mark Rakestraw]

Thanks all, I'm convinced.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Just as an FYI to this topic...
I have a partial can of the old Zinsser Orange Shellac and just bought a can of the new Zinsser Amber Shellac.
I plan to do a side by side brush out of both.

I know for a fact that the old Zinsser Orange Shellac was the same exact product used for the last 55 plus years.
I had to touch up some damaged areas of window trim in a house built in the 1950's and the Zinsser Orange Shellac was a perfect match - both in color and in sheen.

[Rich Engelhardt]

UPDATE....

Yesterday (Sunday) I finally got around to touching up some areas of my mother in law's kitchen cabinets.
They were made in 1956 out of Birch ply w/Pine face frames and finished with the old Orange Shellac.
I used some of the now labeled Zinsser Amber Shellac.

It matched perfectly.

I couldn't find my old can of Zinsser Orange Shellac to do a side by side w/the new - but - based on the results of the MIL's kitchen, I'm satisfied they are the same.

[Mark Rakestraw]

Thanks for the follow-up Rick. Wow, 57 year old kitchen cabinets and you just have to "touch up" the shellac finish. Makes me wonder why I'm using conversion varnish.