Does using a smoothing plane take elbow grease?

[Frederick Skelly]

So Im reading Garrett Hack's Handplane Book as you folks suggested. What a great book for hand plane newbies like me. I've tuned my Miller Falls 9 (equal to a Stanley #4 as you also taught me) and I tried it out. I can take amazingly thin shavings, but I find that doing so still requires a fair amount of physical effort. As silly as that sounds, it surprised me that taking such a thin shaving takes this much work.

Heres more details so you can check what Im doing. My iron is very sharp. (Cut my hand badly on it.) The mouth of the plane is narrow as Hack suggests, the chip breaker is about 3/32 from the cutting edge and the iron is cutting level (adjusted laterally per Hack). The sole is properly flat.

Im still getting some chatter because Im using the original iron and chip breaker. (Hack stresses getting thick iron, but still seems like the plane should work as is, shouldn't it?) And Im having trouble getting a full length shaving, perhaps because of the chatter. Likewise, the depth of cut for very thin shavings has been hard to dial in. Seems to be only a fraction of a turn's margin (1/2 thread). If I go past that in one direction Im too shallow and dont get a shaving. If I go more than about half a thread in the other direction Im cutting too deep and it skips. That seems pretty sensitive to me, but maybe I just dont know any better.

What do you think? Does this sound normal for a newbie with a recycled plane? Or am I overlooking something obvious?

Once again, thanks for teaching me!
Fred

[Chris Griggs]

I'd venture to guess that your blade isn't as sharp as you think it is. The indicator to me is what you say about the blade suddenly taking a thicker shaving then you want. A really sharp blade will engage the wood and start taking shavings with less projection. A not sharp enough blade will not engage the wood until your taking a thicker shaving than you want. A smooth plane should not chatter, even with the a stock blade and chipbreaker. Does your blade easily shave arm hair? Does it cut paper w/o haivng to make any (or at least hadly any) slicing motion (e.g. push cut)?

Other possible problems. What angle is your blade honed at? If you have it honed at to steep of an angle (over 35 degrees tops) there is not enough clearance between the the blade bevel and the wood for it to engage properly.

My advice.

1) Revaluate your blade's edge and make sure it is REALLY sharp
2) Make sure the front edge of your chipbreaker is a mating tightly to the blade and tune it up if necessary...it should not show light through when you hold it up to a lamp
3) Once you know that your blade is sharp set the chipbreaker so its just a hair away from teh blade edge. 3/32 is too much. You should only be able to see line of reflection of the the blades back
4) back up the frog so that is in line with the bottom of the plane....as in there is full support of the blade down past the chipbreaker into the sole.
5) Sneak up the cut on a narrow about 1/2 thick test block. When it starts to engage take swipes on both side of the plane and make sure you get the same thickness shaving at both edges - this ensure equal lateral adjustment.
6)Come back and tell us your results
7) If at first you don't succeed try try again....

[Chris Griggs]

Also, what kind of wood are you planing and how flat is the board. An out of flat board will require you to take a thicker cut to get a full width shaving. A thicker shaving will be harder to push and obviously so will a harder wood. Also, a plane is harder push if you are planing against the grain.

To answer you original question though...No a smoother plane with a sharp 2" wide blade taking a thin shaving should not be particularly hard to push.

[Frederick Skelly]

The blade shaves my arm clean and cuts paper pretty easily. Ive got it single bevelled at 25 degrees. Im going to look at it again though. Maybe it was sharp but has quickly lost its edge. Ive tried it on pine and on maple. Maple takes more work (as Id expect because its harder).

I moved the chip breaker back from 1/32" because I read somewhere in Hacks book that might help. And it did push a bit easier. Ill move it back as you suggest. Ill also move the frog back to give the blade more support. Thatll open the mouth up and may allow more chipout. But I can always adjust it back.

Thank you!
Fred

[Chris Griggs]

Hmmm, if it shaves arm hair cleanly it shouldn't be hard to push even if its not at ultimate sharpness. Do raise the angle a few degrees (about 30), the edge might be rolling at 25 degrees, which is one possible cause of the problem.

Don't worry about controlling tearout yet, just get things funkioning first. Yes, a tight mouth does help to control tearout, but you do need to back up the chipbreaker if you set the mouth super tight. If you open the mouth a bit you can move the chipbreaker up which will reduce chatter and you'll get more blade support which will also reduce chatter. Eventually you will learn how to set the chipbreaker super close and control tearout that way (which actually works better than a tight mouth)...But again, don't worry too much about that yet, just get things working...just get it planing smoothly without chatter.

Thicker aftermarket blades can help compensate for other issuEd, but they are not required...a really well setup plane with a stock blade can achieve the exact same results, it just takes a bit more dialing in. Keep experimenting, that's the biggest thing...there are some things you just need to figure out through trial and error. Hopefully, others will have more idea's too.

[Gary Hodgin]

Try a little wax on the bottom of the plane.

[Chris Griggs]

Try a little wax on the bottom of the plane.

Yes wax! In all the confusing junk I said above I can't believe I failed to mention that. Wax won't fix everything you mentioned but you can be sure it will make the plane a lot easier to push.

[steven c newman]

Yep, the first thing some people say is "Upgrade to a THICK iron". Really? I am moving a #5 jack plane around as a smootherSDC15069.jpgSDC15068.jpgSDC15071.jpg It was rebuilt from a "Parts Box" of old parts. Handles I made for it. The iron? A $3 Buck Brothers 2" wide iron, from Home Depot. No chattering from this plane, either. A little wax on the smooth sole, and away it goes. So, I guess it is all about sharp. I flattened the back of the iron until it shone like a mirror. Took awhile. Even green sticked up an old leather belt to hone the edge a bit. The other plane in the picture? A Millers Falls #900 V-Line plane. The 2x ? Maple.

[Jim Matthews]

Are you applying wax to the sole of your plane?

That's a great deal of surface area to drag around the board.
When I get chatter on a smoother, it's often because the lever cap is flexing the blade.

The lever cap should be tight enough that the blade doesn't shift, but not so tight that it's hard to adjust the "trim" with the depth wheel.

[Tom Henderson2]

I'd venture to guess that your blade isn't as sharp as you think it is. The indicator to me is what you say about the blade suddenly taking a thicker shaving then you want. A really sharp blade will engage the wood and start taking shavings with less projection. A not sharp enough blade will not engage the wood until your taking a thicker shaving than you want. A smooth plane should not chatter, even with the a stock blade and chipbreaker. Does your blade easily shave arm hair? Does it cut paper w/o haivng to make any (or at least hadly any) slicing motion (e.g. push cut)?

Other possible problems. What angle is your blade honed at? If you have it honed at to steep of an angle (over 35 degrees tops) there is not enough clearance between the the blade bevel and the wood for it to engage properly.

My advice.

1) Revaluate your blade's edge and make sure it is REALLY sharp
2) Make sure the front edge of your chipbreaker is a mating tightly to the blade and tune it up if necessary...it should not show light through when you hold it up to a lamp
3) Once you know that your blade is sharp set the chipbreaker so its just a hair away from teh blade edge. 3/32 is too much. You should only be able to see line of reflection of the the blades back
4) back up the frog so that is in line with the bottom of the plane....as in there is full support of the blade down past the chipbreaker into the sole.
5) Sneak up the cut on a narrow about 1/2 thick test block. When it starts to engage take swipes on both side of the plane and make sure you get the same thickness shaving at both edges - this ensure equal lateral adjustment.
6)Come back and tell us your results
7) If at first you don't succeed try try again....

Great post Chris. Spot on.
-Tom in SoCal

[Bob Jones]

Polish the bottom of the plane up to 600grit.
Be sure the frog fully seats in the plane body.
Be sure the iron seats well on the frog - especially at the mouth.
I did a brief write up on plane tuning on my blog recently. You may want to check it out - see my signature. Good luck!

[Jim Koepke]

Great post Chris. Spot on.

+1 on that.

Im having trouble getting a full length shaving, perhaps because of the chatter.

One of my block planes wouldn't take a full length shaving. The problem was the sole was concave from toe to heel. What was happening was that as the end of the stroke was reached I would let up pressure on the plane and the blade would lift out of the cut.

Seems to be only a fraction of a turn's margin (1/2 thread). If I go past that in one direction Im too shallow and dont get a shaving. If I go more than about half a thread in the other direction Im cutting too deep and it skips.

Doing the calculation for a Stanley plane, since it isn't known to me how many threads per inch the Millers Falls depth adjuster uses, at 24 threads per inch, a half turn moves the blade about 0.0208". At 45º that means the depth of the blade (0.707 x 0.0208= 0.0147") moves almost 0.015". That is a fairly thick shaving for a smoother. That is about what my jointers and jacks take when I am feeling good.

Check all the things Chris mentioned. Also check to make sure your chip breaker or frog position isn't causing the blade to bow up from the frog. Seating the blade properly on the frog helps to dampen vibration, AKA chatter.

My way to adjust the blade is to have the blade retracted and to move the plane along a thin edge of a board while simultaneously adjusting the blade depth. As soon as even the slightest shaving appears the adjustment stops and the lateral adjustment. If the full length of the piece is traversed with no shaving, I run both sides of the blade on the piece to make sure the lateral adjustment is in the ball park.

People with good eyesight will sight down the sole of a plane until they see a glint of blade emerge from the mouth. For some reason this works better for me with wooden bodied planes than on metal planes.

If all else is well, a 25º bevel should be fine. 30º is less prone to chatter. If the bevel is at much more it will not have clearance behind the cut and will tend to not cut well.

Here is an old post of mine that may be of help.

Sorry, LOML just called me for dinner.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

You also mention closing up the mouth - I've had a fair amount of chatter with some planes with thinner blades if I close up the mouth by moving the frog too far forward. I like to leave the frog set so that the sole and frog are basically co-planer, or close to it. Backing the frog too much behind the body does that same thing.

Work holding and the surface your working on also can contribute to chatter - you don't *need* a behemoth work bench, but a too-rickety workmate or workholding solution can contribute.

I think Jim already mentioned it in a previous post, but if you add a location to your profile, there may be someone close to you willing to take a look. I'm certainly not the best at these things, but if you're near my neck of the woods, I'd be glad to help out.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thank you guys! Ill try out the things you suggest in the next couple days and let you know how it goes.

But the very first thing Im going to try is that WAX. (I havent used any yet because I need to be sure the turtle wax that I have doesnt have silicon.)

[David Weaver]

Gulf paraffin (or whatever your local paraffin label might be) is what you want. Super easy to put on, and cheap.