Pricing advice on large custom closet/wardrobe...

[Michael Dunn]

Hey guys!!!

I'd like some advice on pricing. Please be gentle. I know how to build this I just want to make sure I don't low ball myself or over bid and be or of consideration for the job.

Here are her specs. I'm thinking poplar for face frames and raised panel doors. I have accounts with lumber and hardware suppliers so I get discounts on materials. I'm thinking I'll build the carcasses on site and then build the face frames and doors in my shop. It is an 80 mile round trip so I'd like to get it done in 2-3 trips hopefully just 2. I'm mainly looking for labor advice. I plan to creat my BOM and charge her the undiscounted materials price. Unless there is a better way to do it. I'm all ears.

I'm thinking pocket screws for carcass and face frame construction. Quick, sturdy and easy.

"I would like a custom built in wardrobe/closet for my bedroom. The unit would measure 100 inches in length, 24 inches in depth and about 9 feet 9 inches in height. It would have 5 doors (similar to the picture with brass knobs in the center of the door). The unit would be comprised of 3 units total - 2 units would be 40 inches in length and 1 unit would be 20 inches in length. The larger units would have two hanging rods and about 3 or 4 drawers on the bottom. The smaller unit would be placed in the middle of the 2 larger units and it would have shelves on the top and drawers on the bottom."

Thanx in advance guys!!!

[Jamie Buxton]

Build and finish the carcasses on site? Where are you going to stay while you're doing that? Me, I'd build everything in the shop. There would be one trip to measure, and a second trip to install. If you have a big truck, you can transport the cabinet components fully assembled. If you have a smaller truck, design the cabinets to flat-pack. (Flat-pack -- the cabinets break down to flat finished panels, and assemble on-site with knock-down fasteners of various sorts. Kinda like the Ikea approach, but full-custom design and higher quality.)

For labor estimates, you have to think through how you're going to build the cabinets, and how you work. My shop time and equipment and skills are probably different from yours, so what I'd guess for me wouldn't help. Remember to include the costs of the trips -- mileage, where you're going to stay while you're there, etc.

[Michael Dunn]

Well, that was my first thought. I'll be working with 10' pieces of plywood. If it try to rip that in my shop I'll have to move my TS 3' closer towards the big garage door. Not a huge deal, my DC system is adaptable for these scenarios. I was initially thinking of using my TS-75 to cut the plywood pieces to size on site for the carcass. Then sand and paint or stain, whatever she chooses on site. Then install the carcasses. Take measurements for face frames and the. Door and drawers.

I estimated between 50-62 hours to complete. I used $45 as my hourly rate. Which would be between $2250-2790 for labor. Is that in he ballpark? Or too high? Or perhaps too low?

Lumber and ply will run $1325 to that I added 20% for a total of $1615.
Hardware and fasteners will run $325.17.

Her posted budget was $2500-$5000. With the high end of my labor estimate I'm still within her budget. $4730.

Any thoughts? Please feel free to give me some figures that you would use. I just want to know how other people think and work these out. I'm near Chicago where the cost of living is pretty high. I see your in CA so you know what I mean. I'm sure your COL is quite a bit higher. What do you use as an hourly rate?

Also, this potential install is in a pretty high class area FWIW.

I'd like to submit this ASAP, but I'd like some opinions on my figures.

Thanx!!!

[Michael Dunn]

I had to update my price. I forgot about the drawer faces. I don't have the bd ft calculations on me now, but it wasn't a considerable increase in materials or labor.

Anybody?

[Sylvain Deschamps]

Your looking at 2 casings at $300 and 1 casing at $225. Each having an inside 3 drawer unit at $200 each. Thats $1425 just for box production. An average of $20 sq ft of door and face frame for it's production and $10 ft (double sided) for it's finishing. So 90 sq ft at $30 is $2700. $325 for hardware and your total pricing for production is $4450. You still haven't installed it, add trim, touch up, and transport, your bid should be $5000. (Still to détermine is if drawer fronts Will be same as unit doors)

[Michael Dunn]

That's pretty darn close to my final bid I ended up sending yesterday. I sent a proposal for $4850. I'm still waiting to hear back from her. She's pretty busy selling her house or condo and moving into the new place.

Thanx for the advice. Would you be able to she'd some light on how you came up with your figures? Just so I can see how someone else breaks it all down.

[Sylvain Deschamps]

I appoligize for the font to all readers. I am using à french keyboard with limited computer skill!
I have only a small expérience of cabinet making. About 30 kitchens and bathrooms and a few built ins. For me a custom made standard 30inch kitchens case is $100. So 10 feet tall should be $300. I now make the doors myself but before i had them made from à supplier, where à standard shaker style door prices at $15 sq foot. So your raised panel cope and still doors should be at least $20 sq ft. Finishing doors with paint and laquer with HVLP is industry priced at $10 sq ft both sides. I use to quote with à multiple of 3.5 of all expéditures but it was not good for all expences and especially unknowns which Will always happen. Good Luck! Hope i was helpful.

[Buck Williams]

[QUOTE=Sylvain Deschamps;2108452]I appoligize for the font to all readers. I am using à french keyboard with limited computer skill!

Ce n'est pas de grave

[Andy Pratt]

Michael I think you might get more input in the "lumber yard" part of the forum (for contributors only, no search engines will return results from there as far as I understand it). I'm not sure if you need to be signed in to see it on the forum list or not. Many people aren't going to want to give pricing advice in an open part of the forum, where competitors/customers could read it. Probably protects you from the same thing as well.

[johnny means]

I would say 5k for that job is on the low end. A quality store bought unit approximating those specs would cost more than that.

[Michael Dunn]

Michael I think you might get more input in the "lumber yard" part of the forum (for contributors only, no search engines will return results from there as far as I understand it). I'm not sure if you need to be signed in to see it on the forum list or not. Many people aren't going to want to give pricing advice in an open part of the forum, where competitors/customers could read it. Probably protects you from the same thing as well.

Yeah, I just realized today that I put it in the wrong forum. Oops.

[Bill Space]

HI,

Well I don't make things to sell to others so take what I say with a grain of salt.

But I would approach it from my own cost and labor rate expectations.

What do you want to get paid for each hour invested in making the unit? How many hours will it take?

How many hours travel time?

What are the costs of materials?

Do you have to figure in overhead costs?

Costs of transportation? Fuel and vehicle depreciation/maintenance costs?

Other miscellaneous out of pocket costs to recoup?

Add them all together, along with whatever I forgot to list above, and you come up with your bid.

Your final bid will likely differ from others, for various reasons.

If another is chosen to make the unit, life is life. If you are honest with yourself and bid the unit at a price you think is fair, what more can you do?

Seems like if you want to make the bid price lower, your only option would be to lower your hourly rate, OR, reduce the time it take you to produce the unit (increase your efficiency).

As was alluded to above, what someone else charges does not necessarily relate to your specific situation.

For whatever this is worth...Bill

[Mark Bolton]

Just looking at it quickly I am right in line with Johnny, your number is way low. Just factoring in 320 miles of travel alone. Without taking everything apart if there is even a slight amount of site finishing I dont see how you can do anything in 2 visits to the job site. It would be pushing it in my opinion.

It sounds to me like she budgeted for a store bought item but is looking for a custom work at that price. If I had to travel 320 miles to do that work it would be much more.

*edit* I missed the 2-3 trips, I read it as 2. If it goes to three... ?

[Jeff Duncan]

There are so many factors involved in pricing a job I wouldn't attempt to bid that without more info. I will say if someone asked me to build based on what little details there are, the tiny pic which doesn't show much, and the budget of $5k I could do it. However it would be Euro construction w/ soft maple doors. No face frames, no 9'+ pieces of ply or any other material. I'd stack the hanging closets on top of separate drawer boxes all made out of pre-fin maple. Paint the banded fronts to match the doors and call it done. Now I'm more than happy to use face frames and build it however they want, but we're probably going over $5k.

As far as the distance....I'm not traveling that far unless there's a premium being paid for my services. I'll generally go up to an hours drive for larger projects. However I'm saying that currently having a full workload and really not able to keep up. For others trying to establish themselves....well, ya gotta do what ya gotta do

good luck,
JeffD

[Michael Dunn]

For others trying to establish themselves....well, ya gotta do what ya gotta do

good luck,
JeffD

Jeff,

That last statement kind of hit the nail on he head. I'm still waiting to hear if you accepted my proposal. I really need to get some cash flowing and some nice projects under my belt. I'm learning about the business end of all this as I go. I'm teachable and learn quickly from mistakes so at least I have that going for me. In addition to my wealth of tools and technical know how. That, and I have SMC by my side.

Thanx!!!