Sharpening, what grit after 6000?

[Frederick Skelly]

Hi guys. If I was going to buy some stones that are even finer than 6000, what grit would you suggest? I was reading old posts on sharpening and someone suggested going as far 16,000 grit. Is it ok to jump that far in one step (from 6000 directly to 16,000)or should I use another grit in between?

And while I have you, let me ask another, though I hope it doesnt hack anyone off or start a sharpening holy war - At my skill level (hand plane newbie) will I even notice enough improvement in that smoothing plane's edge to make buying finer stones (beyond 6000) worth the money at this point? (Two fine grit shaptons costs as much as some Veritas items Ive been eyeballing, so Ive a trade to make.)

Thanks for your advice!
Fred

[David Weaver]

Any one of the super finishers (13k, 12k,15k, whatever) would follow a 6k stone. You'll notice the difference in sharpness.

[Rick Fisher]

I go 4K - 8K - 13K sigma .. then Leather . .

If I had 6K instead of 8K it would be fine ..

[George Beck]

My sharpening (with the exception of a few fine Japanese blades) has evolved to 1000-5000-15000. I have a 30,000 but use it only on a few. You will notice a difference in sharpness but mostly I have noticed a difference in how long it stays sharp. A 5000 or 6000 is sharp but will quickly break down in hard wood.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks guys. Sounds like the 16,000 then. I appreciate it!

[Archie England]

I do use a 10k and a 13k (both Sigmas) after my 6k (Sigma); but, only end grain or swirly grain NEEDS that much more. How fast I get back to work really determines how far I'll sharpen a blade.

[Don Jarvie]

6000 is probably enough. I use a fine India then a diasharp fine and the blades are plenty sharp. Unless you have top of the line chisels and blades they will loose the edge faster than the extra time you spend.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Hi guys. If I was going to buy some stones that are even finer than 6000, what grit would you suggest? I was reading old posts on sharpening and someone suggested going as far 16,000 grit. Is it ok to jump that far in one step (from 6000 directly to 16,000)or should I use another grit in between?

If you are near Columbus Ohio, you can stop in and see if you can make a difference with a higher grit stone that I use after my 6000

I keep procrastinating on attaching some leather to some wood and making a few strops; I suppose I need to decide what glue to use to attach it.... Always something to figure out I suppose.

[Russell Sansom]

This kind of discussion makes for some long threads that tend to sound alike after awhile. But curious minds want to know.
I stop at 8k or 16k, finding 6k just a hair too coarse. The way I do things, I wouldn't leap from 6k to 16k, though. One way to think about it is, what kind of edge do you want to maintain? The more "perfect" it is, the better you can monitor its degradation.

When I want to know exactly where my edge has gone after putting it to work, I go to 16k. I more commonly finish to 8k ( or 10k ) and go right to work, knowing I'll have to take the iron back to the stone after a few minutes. Or sooner if a nick appears out of nowhere. I don't know if this makes sense, but the 16k finish is much easier to keep track of.

And, finally, for me the finish on the blade is generally dictated by the wood it has to face. I'm not going pit my finest edges against rough or knotted lumber. The 16k edge would cut wonderfully for a few seconds, but then I'd be facing 5 minutes to repair it. On the other hand, if I'm smoothing a jewelry box or a pair of presentation-quality cabinet doors, I want to control the quality of my edge from beginning to end.

[David Paulsen]

Hey Guys, I'm really curious to hear your thoughts on this. I have been sharpening my chisels and blades for a long time with freehand on dmt diamond stones to 1000grit and then roughly 30 stropping strokes with fine jewelers rouge on leather (have no idea what grit, but gives a mirror polish). I can sharpen my tools in no time, max 3 min and then go on working, finding that I don't need my general roughing/shaping tools to be any sharper (unless perhaps, if they could actually hold an edge significantly longer from finer sharpening?).

And when I use my smoother, freshly sharpened, I finish up with whisper thin shavings (depending on the wood obviously) and then I burnish the surface with some of the shavings leaving a fine mirror surface on the wood. What more can I ask for than that?

So, I haven't tried going any higher than my 6000 grit and do not know what I missing out on. Or am I? Functionally speaking. And like Frederick is asking, is it worth the extra money and labor/time?

I am really not asking this as a taunt, just a curious semi newbie.

[Brent VanFossen]

I use a 16,000 glass Shapton as my final stone. I notice a difference in sharpness from when I used to finish at 8,000. Since I only use this final stone for the micro bevel, it takes no time at all for me to finish off at 16,000. Maybe 10 strokes or so.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

... and then roughly 30 stropping strokes with fine jewelers rouge on leather (have no idea what grit, but gives a mirror polish). I can sharpen my tools in no time, max 3 min and then go on working, finding that I don't need my general roughing/shaping tools to be any sharper (unless perhaps, if they could actually hold an edge significantly longer from finer sharpening?).

And when I use my smoother, freshly sharpened, I finish up with whisper thin shavings (depending on the wood obviously) and then I burnish the surface with some of the shavings leaving a fine mirror surface on the wood. What more can I ask for than that?

So, I haven't tried going any higher than my 6000 grit and do not know what I missing out on. Or am I? Functionally speaking. And like Frederick is asking, is it worth the extra money and labor/time?

My first comment is that the result is what matters.

That said, jeweler's rouge means very little to me. More specifically, it could mean anything. When someone says "Jeweler's Rouge", my first thought is that you have something very fine (3.5 to 0.3 microns) that is meant for polishing silver and gold and will likely have little effect on hard steel. The old red compound (crocus), however, is an intermediate compound somewhere between cutting and polishing, so I expect it would work (not that I have tried it). It sounds like it does work for you, so.....

Sadly, I don't think that you can use color as a guide I believe that a "jeweler's rouge" and a chromium oxide paste may have the same name depending on the vendor or manufacturer, but, if it really is jeweler's rouge I would not expect your results. Well, even if it is, it will probably help somewhat.

I have diamond paste and I have some green honing compound that I purchased from Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...84&cat=1,43072), but I have not yet used either (because my super fine Shapton stone does a pretty good job and I just have not had the time to prep to use the others).

[George Beck]

Fredrick

Sharpening is a very personal thing. I think I have purchased or tried about every "it's fast and fool proof" gizmo out there. I learned to sharpen on a hand crank 6" grind wheel and then stones. My great Uncle used one of those huge old wet stone grinders (pedal pumped) and then spit on an Arkansas stone and swirled it around. I was never successful with that method. This is why I love sharpening threads! It is always a "Duck Season, Wabbit season" debate. There are so many ways. Just find what fits you and your work. Now about this pins first or tails first issue.
George

[David Paulsen]

Hey Andrew, Yeah, you are right, it might not be jewelers rouge, I think it's a red chromium oxide paste... But then again, I'm not certain. And my lack of english terminology doesn't help either. The site I bought it from doesn't have it anymore. But the paste does make a difference for me. Maybe its the leather? Anywho... Like you wrote... It's the result that matters. If I had the money I might try a finer way of sharpening, but I haven't had any trouble as it is. And as a purely neander woodworker, I really appreciate the low sharpening time so I can get back to business.
Would be fun to try though, one day.

[David Weaver]

It might be iron oxide. You don't want any chromium pastes that are maroon, they are carciongenic chromium IV if that's the case.

Iron oxide paste is not uncommon, and it definitely is capable of working an edge or creating a bright polish.

If you don't feel the want for a finer stone, then there's no reason to get one. In the rare case you want to push the stone to get a better edge, just let the surface dry and use it as it loads.