Any bow makers?

[Joe Hillmann]

Any bow makers here? Last night I started working on my first "real" bow and ended up breaking it when tillering. I was wondering if anyone here has any experience making board bows and could give me some pointers.

[Dale Coons]

Well, you can't even consider yourself a real bowyer until you break one! So consider yourself having checked that box off!

I'm no expert, I've made probably 20 bows, but I've only broken one (got anxious and put a string that was too short on it). You don't say what kind of bow--laminated or self. I make laminated bows, but I expect a similar process. I first round over the edges up and down both ends of the bow until the limbs have a 'pointed oval' cross section, with the points in the center of the limb thickness. A self bow has a completely different shape (usually a "D" shaped cross section). The thickness should thin considerably as you move toward the nocks, but the last few inches don't really need any work at all except for a little shaping to make them look nice--they don't flex, and you want them strong enough to hold the string.

Once I get there, I start working the limbs by flexing them with a tillering string or heavy bow string--not too much, you just want to get them to start bending. As you work on the limbs, you can flex them more and more--but doing it all at once is a recipie for disaster. You didn't say where it broke, but a common trouoble areas are where there's a 'hinge' and the limb bends (relatively)sharply instead of in a smooth arc. If you've got one of those you need to weaken the wood around it but leave the hinge alone--it's bending there because it's weak. If it's real bad, you'll just have to live with the fact that it's going to be lighter than you may want. Also watch for stiffness close to the handle, a lot of folks don't take enough of there. That's pretty much it--alternate working and flexing, and slowly flex more and more as you approach the target weight.

[Joe Hillmann]

I was following the design that was put up on poorfolksbows dot co, but without the backing, not quite a self bow since it has the handle glued on.

It broke about 6 inches from the end on what I planned to be the top. There were several reasons it broke, I didn't work the limbs enough before trying to go a bit farther, there was an imperfection in the grain near where it broke and it was probably too stiff. If nothing else I learned quite a bit.

On my next one I plan to try making a pyramid bow, I don't like how they look but from what I have read they are easy to to build and much more forgiving when it come to tillering.

I plan to use this bow for bow fishing so I plan to permanently mount a turned wooden reel above the handle. I know that before the end of summer it will end up submerged in water so I need to figure out a waterproof finish for it that can take the bending without cracking. I would also like to make the bow as short as possible but the only plans I can find for a pyramid bow in the power range I want is 72 inches long.

[William Adams]

I've made a couple. It's very challenging and a lot of fun.

My favorite book on it is online, _The Flat Bow_:

http://www.archerylibrary.com/books/

[Dale Coons]

Joel,

I'd stick with the flat bow and give it another go--but use a backing this time! Don't know what you have in the way of tools so you may need to be creative with some of this. Some of the best backing materials are hickory and bamboo. Maple will work ok. The backing should be 1/8 inch or less ('or less' hopefully). I've never tried the drywall tape/glue backing on the website you mentioned, may work fine, but it's butt ugly in my opinion.

Save yourself some work by doing some rough shaping with a band or hand saw and a jointer (or plane). Glue the backing to your bellywood and let it dry thoroughly. Use plenty of glue, squeezout is your friend. You don't want the backing to seperate from the bow. After the blank is dry, layout your bow and cut it out on the bandsaw. I also glue the handle before shaping, but it's easier to cut the blank out with it off. A better shape would be something about 1 1/4 inches in the handle area, and taper from the ends of the handle to about 5/8 or so at the nock ends. That will save you a lot of grunt work. Also, you'll want to taper the belly side of the bow before you start with a rasp. You can do this on a jointer (with out the handle!) by starting the joint close to the end of the handle and going all the way to the end of the limb. Then move about a quarter of the way to the nock, and do it again. Repeat several times. By doing this, the ends will have more passes than the middle of the bow, and be thinner. No jointer? You can do the same with a plane. Don't use a rasp for this kind of work, it's hard on you and the rasp!

The website suggests a cross section like A. B shows the laminated cross section of a red oak stave and a back. I like the shaped cross-section in C better than A--it's easier to tiller and shape, plus it's 'purty'. If you center the 'pointed oval' in the thickness of the wood like in C, you'll see a nice reveal on the edges as you look at the bow head on, sort of like D.

The website's tips for tillering look pretty good--it's a decent list of defects you want to avoid.

Good luck!


bowpic.JPG

[Dale Coons]

One other quick thing--the handle isn't typically in the center of the bow--the arrow rest is. Your handle should go maybe 1 1/2-2 inches above that, and 4-5 inches below. That means your lower limb is shorter and stiffer than the upper limb. You'll have to take more wood off the bottom when tillering to make it bend evenly. Taper the handle into the limbs.

[russell lusthaus]

Hi Joe

I too am a bowyer. I have been making bows for about 10 years and have about 3-4 bows going at all times, but it has been some time since I did a (not so) simple board bow. I would guess that you broke your bow because the back of it was not a single growth ring. It had been violated in places, probably more than one. It is extremely hard to find a board that has a single growth followed - and this is the main reason why the board bows require a backing. There are many backing materials to choose from - - wood, bamboo, sinew, rawhide, brown paper bag, flax, linen . . . . You also did not mention what kind of wood you were using - as some are better than others.

I enjoy Sam Harpers page too and I still use to this day his BBI form. I hang out at Primitivearcher.com for all my bow building Q&A. There are many buildalongs for you to read and learn from and a guy who goes by bubby recently did a board bow buildalong which I think you will find informative.

I would be happy to help you choose a good pairing of woods for back and belly if you tell me what you have access to.

Lastly, I have to take issue with something Dale said above. In fairness to him, though, there is a debate on this point amongst knowledgeable bowyers, I just happen to disagree with his position. While some bows are built with the top and bottom limbs differing in length, I do not make them that way very often. On (most of) my bows, the top and bottom limb are the same length. This means that the 4 inch handle is in the middle of the bow and the arrow rest is about a inch and a quarter above the center line of the bow. When limb length is not the same, the handle / rest geometry changes (as Dale was describing), but for a first time board bow, I would suggest you center the handle and build the limbs the same length. When you become more experienced, you will decide if you like bows with a longer upper limb. Tillering a bow with a longer upper limb is harder too.

Russ

[Joe Hillmann]

The bow was red oak. I would really like to build a bow out of one piece of wood with no backing, which is why I am now thinking of giving a pyramid bow a try from what I have read the way the load is spread out they don't necessarily require a backing and are an ok shooting bow.

As far as woods I have available, , red oak, white oak, maple, poplar, basswood, willow, ash, birch, elm I am sure there are others but I would prefer to use a wood that I can point to a stump and say this bow came form that tree or at least know which piece of property it came from, which is kind of the reason I want to make an unbacked bow.

[russell lusthaus]

One piece of wood with no backing is called a self bow -- not a board bow. From the list of woods you have available, I would tell you to use elm or white oak, as they are both very good bow woods. Maple and ash are also ok, but not as good as elm or white oak. What kind of elm do you have? Many people use red oak (and birch), but in my opinion they are inferior to the others, and if you are going to put in the effort, and have access to WO or elm, use them. If you have to purchase staves, then maybe RO to learn on since it is cheap.

For all of these woods mentioned, the first sap wood ring under the bark becomes the back of your bow, so you have to be careful removing the bark so as to not damage the back of your bow. That said, your wood must be dried before making a bow - - and some dry their wood with the bark on, and others remove it first. Depends on the species. If you remove it, coat the entire back and ends with shellac to retard the quicker drying of the back and prevent cracks from opening. Different strokes for different folks.

Any style of bow can be made as a self bow - - not just pyramids. However, a pyramid is a good candidate for your first, since the tapering is only in width. Remember - on a pyramid - the width tapers evenly from handle fade to nock, but the thickness remains constant from outside the fade to the end of the limb. Most important is to keep a single growth ring on the back of the bow. I do not mean to belittle pyramids - - as my favorite shooting bow is a hickory pyramid, 50#@28inches.

Do you have dry wood to work with? If not, and you are near me (not sure where you live), I would be happy to give you a dry stave to try your hand on. If not, all I can offer is advise and encouragement. It is an awesome feeling to get a deer (or carp) with your own equipment - and I don't even hunt. BTW - - carp skins, properly dried, make awesome decorative backings for bows.

Russ

Russ

[Joe Hillmann]

Russ,
Thanks for the offer, although I am in Wisconsin.

I ended up turning the bow that broke into a child sized pyramid bow with about a 20# weight. Going with the pyramid style was so easy it nearly tillered itself.

I also cut out a blank for a fishing bow for myself, the body is red oak with a walnut handle (that is what I had on hand) I will start tillering it tomorrow once the glue dries if it is anywhere near as easy as the first one I may have a new hobby.

Edit: I am not sure what type of elm it is.

Second edit: I mostly plan to go after red horse with it. In the past we have gotten some carp up to about fifty lbs, the meat looks wonderful but they taste like eating swamp mud. Red horse is the only local fish I can bow fish for that has a good flavor.

[ray hampton]

I am surprise about you using red oak, maple are use in laminated Fiberglass bows, hickory use to be the main wood for self bows

[Joe Hillmann]

The reason I used red oak is because I had it in the shop. It was left overs from a bunch of toboggans I built for Christmas.

[russell lusthaus]

Try and make sure the back of the bow follows a single growth ring. If it does not, you should back it with something or it will break. Maple makes a good backer for RO. So does brown supermarket bag paper.

The handle that you glued on is of course a place to hold the bow, but it is decorative too in that the bow should not bend thru the handle, so any wood that looks good to you can be used. Just make sure that the bow does not bend thru the handle or the glued on handle will pop off. I think Sam Harper had a good drawing of how to tiller a bow with the glued on handle so it wont pop off.

Ray - Hickory is still one of the main woods used for self bows, along with osage, yew and black locust - but he did not indicate he had access to these other woods.

[Joe Hillmann]

So I got the bow that I broke modified and shooting. It is 20 lbs at 21". But I am now having a hard time finding a bow string. The two archery shops in the area don't have any type of string. Is there anything I can make an improvised string out of that I can use until I can get an actual string? In the past I have used nylon but it has a lot of stretch. Would braided spiderwire work, it is supposed to have very little stretch.

[russell lusthaus]

Not sure what braided spiderwire is. Be careful that the string you use does not cut into the nock and/or back of the bow.

Maybe you could use hemp cord as a temp string. I have used para cord, and artificial sinew, but they stretch too. You will want to pre stretch the string anyway. Put it on the bow, let it sit an hour, then take it off and twist it shorter and continue till it stops stretching.