Volumes of wisdom concentrated in a few words. But so few will heed them....Originally Posted by george wilson
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Volumes of wisdom concentrated in a few words. But so few will heed them....
Member
Now i remember why I stopped coming to SMC for a while, way to many arrogant, grumpy old men around here. I swear some of you guys seem to go looking for reasons to jump on someone and put them down. If you don't use this method your unskilled, those are all gimmicks, when I was younger blah blah blah....
-Dan
Member
I pretty much use my jig to figure out what I am doing (and trying to understand sharpness), then move to freehand sharpening and try to replicate it. For a little while my freehand sharpening was coming out better than my previous jig sharpening, but I lost it over the winter and am going back to the jig to relearn.
Also, I keep coming back here because some of the grumpy old men have the experience and knowledge to correct some of the misunderstandings I've picked up from other people and my own ignorance. My vote is to keep up the meaningful discussions as I have learned a lot from them.
Last edited by Shaun Mahood; 05-24-2013 at 1:16 PM.
Member
You know, it is alright for "old men" to have opinions...that may differ from yours. I, for one, appreciate the opinions of the guys that have been around.
Besides, unless I misread it...your post sounded a tad like it came from a grumpy young man.
Just sayin'...
Member
The lift was recommended by Stanley (tools not Covington) in guides to honing that came with their tools.
And lets not forget that ALF introduced it to many a modern newb with the timeless classic "bird chirp video"
I often skip it for the repeatability reasons Charlie mentions, and when I do use it its usually just to get a final super fine polish at the tip...more of insurance than anything else.
I do, however, in 2 cases, do like what is shown in the video and do the whole honing process lifted up off the hollow.
1. On my 5 and 6 blades that have more camber it is easier to follow the arc by just honing the front edge than following the arc across the hollow. It also allows me to adjust the camber on the first stone in a way that is less easy than if I hone on the primary.
2. If I have a bit of extra wear or fine chipping on the front edge and for whatever reason don't feel like walking over to the grinder.
Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...
Member
Sorry if you don't like my truthful advice,dan. Maybe you could profit from it if you would not dismiss it. Yes,there are many gimmicks designed to help you part with your money. Do you think any competent craftsman 100 years ago would have had to use those crutches? Saws weren't even supplied sharpened in the 18th.C.,nor were chisels and carving tools sold sharpened or with handles. Indeed,they were sold blunt ended from the forge. You were expected to learn the basic skills to maintain your tools.
Whether or not you appreciate it,I am a very accomplished craftsman and it would be wise to heed my words,and David's,and Charlie's too and a long list of others,even if their advice is sometimes different. There's more than 1 way to get a tool sharp. I think having a small secondary bevel's chief advantage is that you don't have to sharpen the whole bevel every time. It saves some extra effort. In the case of easily worn water stones,it saves them,too.
The ONLY 19th.C. sharpening jigs I am aware of,after 39 years as a master craftsman in Williamsburg,and woodworking seriously gotten into in 1952 are the devices for sharpening engraving tools and the cutters for Holtzappfel type decorative turning lathes,where the exact cutting angles was a lot more critical.
Actually,I never said that you were not skillful if you used jigs. I said it was easier to sharpen if you learned to use your hands and eyes.
Last edited by Bruce Page; 05-24-2013 at 2:25 PM.
Member
Rather than ignoring the advice and practices of those "old men",when I was young(you know,we are ALL young once,use it well),I hung around them when I was lucky enough to get time with them,and soaked up information like a sponge. I still do. It certainly helped me get somewhere,rather than wandering along in my own ignorance forever. I felt great loss as they died off.
Last edited by Bruce Page; 05-24-2013 at 2:24 PM.
Contributor
Folks....a friendly reminder.............keep it civil!
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
Member
My posts were not intended to be uncivil. Why don't you edit the "arrogant old grumpy men","when I was young,blah,blah,blah..." post that caused the response? If that was not uncivil,I don't understand. I only gave truthful advice. Somehow my response to being called that was less civil than his post?
All my life I have sought out experienced old men and learned much from them.
Last edited by george wilson; 05-24-2013 at 3:03 PM.
Member
I have no problem at all with opinions, I have a real problem with the this is the best way, or I'm right because I have been around attitude.
If they where anything like my great grandfather they did. He was a cabinet maker by trade, with a wife and 11 children to feed. From what my father has told me, he used all kinds of tricks and what people would today call unsafe methods to finish a project. His goal was to finish the project as fast and as cheaply as possible within the constraints of quality set by his clients, and the tools he had at his disposal.
I didn't say you said I was. I was referring to your general stance on the subject matter. As a side note, i can free hand sharpen a blade just fine.
I would argue this point of view has a caveat, it assumes the person doing the sharpening is hollow grinding, and has stones.
If you look around, a lot of people starting out don't have a grinder, stones, or the cash to buy them. I think this is why scary sharp is so popular with beginners, it gives them a way to sharpen on the cheap. I have a friend going through this very thing right now. He has my old #103 (pretty sure it was a type 2) and an old guide I gave him, and an off cut of granite countertop he got for fee, because that's all he could afford.
The people who have taught me over the years, would always show me what method they used, and then explain other methods that could be used to accomplish the same task. they always tried to impart as much information as possible and left me decide what method i wanted to use.
-Dan
Member
If I had bought the exact things recommended by people on this forum for sharpening and learned to freehand with a hollow grind right from the start I would have saved hundreds of dollars over the last couple of years. I tried to cheap out but spent more money on the first 6 months of scary sharp than I would have otherwise.If you look around, a lot of people starting out don't have a grinder, stones, or the cash to buy them. I think this is why scary sharp is so popular with beginners, it gives them a way to sharpen on the cheap. I have a friend going through this very thing right now. He has my old #103 (pretty sure it was a type 2) and an old guide I gave him, and an off cut of granite countertop he got for fee, because that's all he could afford.
My honing guide cost more than my grinder.
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That right there would make a great spoof signature
Member
Dan,you do not know me. I was VERY poor all the time I was growing up. I had no grinder,and only a 50 cent chisel,a gray hardware stone and a block plane to work with. I had to go to a neighbor to borrow a 1/4" electric drill. I was making guitars in the bare bones garage with these things. I had to learn to sharpen without jigs. I never knew of any,and had no money to buy such. It was the hard way to learn,but I did learn,and especially when I came across some older person I could glean knowledge from.
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