Dowels, how many for a upper cabinet box?

[Ole Anderson]

I am about ready to start constructing the upper cabinet boxes for my kitchen, using the standard 12" depth (I'm reusing the bottom boxes). I have elected to use glue and dowels for the corner joints. I have the DowelMax Jr. jig and plan on using 3/8" dowels. Any hints as to problems to watch out for? Also how many dowels and what spacing should I use on the 12" joints? Oh, the boxes will be 3/4" Hickory plywood edge banded 3 sides with the bottom shelf having a 3/4" solid edge. Backs will be 3/4" Hickory ply set in a 3/8" dado.

[Phil Thien]

I'm just going to say that, a biscuit joiner will make this go a ton faster.

[Darius Ferlas]

Not a believer in biscuit joiners, unless you spend big bucks on a Lamello, so I'd say dowels will be just fine.
For any kind of structural joinery using dowels I opt for epoxy rather than PVA.

[Art Mann]

I think 4 would be more than adequate. I use the original Dowelmax jig and it is a pleasure to use. It is truly a precision instrument and makes dowel joinery easy. On the other hand, I have started using pocket screws for some applications and they are even easier and plenty strong.

[Mark Bolton]

I'm with Phil's concept of simpler is better. These are uppers, AND your using 3/4" to boot!! A dado, glue, and some brads shot through the dados where they'll be hidden and these boxes will be intact after a bomb went off.

All our boxes are 1/2" with dado. Face frames pocket screwed. You could drop one from 6' and it'd handle it.

[Ole Anderson]

I have a Dewalt biscuit jointer, but I really have trouble getting a consistent offset from the edge, plus they really don't offer much strength. I love pocket screws, but these will be euro face frame-less style construction so I don't want a dado or pocket screws showing.

[Phil Thien]

I have a Dewalt biscuit jointer, but I really have trouble getting a consistent offset from the edge, plus they really don't offer much strength. I love pocket screws, but these will be euro face frame-less style construction so I don't want a dado or pocket screws showing.

If you did pocket screws, you could screw from the top and the bottom into the sides, so the only way people would see the pocket screws would be if they were short enough to look up under the cabinets, or if they were tall enough to look at the tops of your cabinets.

The biscuit joint, believe it or not, is probably the strongest and most consistent of all the methods you've named here for cabinet construction, even the dado. This is the application for which biscuits were invented.

[Art Mann]

I don't believe that biscuit joinery is stronger than dowels or correctly applied pocket screws. There are all sorts of published experiments to illustrate this. I have done a few tests myself as well. They were indeed invented for this application and they are probably more than adequate. Using the Dowelmax jig he mentioned is just as easy or easier in my experience.

[Huck Schwee]

Since you already have the DowelMax and are comfortable using it, and I don't think anyone would argue that a biscuit it stronger than a dowel, I would go ahead and use that method. I agree with Art that 4 per joint line would probably be more than adequate.

Good luck!

[John Lanciani]

I'll throw it out just for sport; Dominos. Faster and stronger than dowels, just as fast and stronger than biscuits.

[Mark Bolton]

I'll throw it out just for sport; Dominos. Faster and stronger than dowels, just as fast and stronger than biscuits.

Biscuits have no strength. Alignment aid only. Strength is not required in this application, alignment "may be" an asset but not really. Glue alone would suffice.

[Phil Thien]

Biscuits have no strength. Alignment aid only. Strength is not required in this application, alignment "may be" an asset but not really. Glue alone would suffice.

I guess if something becomes repeated often enough people begin to think it is true.

Biscuits make a but joint about a million times stronger than it would otherwise be.

[Phil Thien]

I'll throw it out just for sport; Dominos. Faster and stronger than dowels, just as fast and stronger than biscuits.

In the case of sheet goods, the biscuits wider profile will likely allow a biscuit to match a Domino for strength.

[Phil Thien]

I don't believe that biscuit joinery is stronger than dowels or correctly applied pocket screws. There are all sorts of published experiments to illustrate this. I have done a few tests myself as well. They were indeed invented for this application and they are probably more than adequate. Using the Dowelmax jig he mentioned is just as easy or easier in my experience.

The published tests to which you refer never seem to feature carcass construction.

I guarantee you that if you go into any cabinet shop cranking-out kitchen cabinets anywhere in the country, you will see them using dados, or biscuits.

Finally, in terms of speed, we can have a contest. You dowel your pieces, and I'll biscuit mine. By the time I'm glued-up and in clamps, you will still be drilling holes.

[Art Mann]

Are we not taking about carcass construction? Perhaps you are right but I have used both. Have you? I am not talking about some cheap doweling jig that requires a lot of measuring and adjustments. I am talking about a Dowelmax. Many years ago, I worked at the largest cabinet shop in the Eastern United States (www.wellborn.com). They built for companies like Home Depot and for large apartment complexes. I never saw a biscuit or biscuit cutter while I was there. I did, however, see horizontal gang boring machines for dowel construction. I will admit that is not the same thing as one off small shop construction. More recently, I have visited and done business with a couple of smaller cabinet shops in my community and I have yet to see a carcass put together with biscuits. More and more, I am seeing pocket hole joinery and cam lock for the cheaper assemblies.